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Wrath
12-22-2007, 07:34 AM
Hey there,

I was wondering if some of you made some experience on this, since we currently have our christmas raiding break, i had no chance to figure it out myself.

Ever since ferals got real viable raidtanks, the main advantage beside theire high-amor mitigation was the way higher threat output over warrior tanks.

So my question is if the threat situation changed, due to expertise - our feral tank has zero expertise rating and very low hit rating (12 +hit). Since i got my brooch of deftness & the ancient phalanx bracers (finally got the legacy aldory defender aswell =) ) my expertise & hit stats are @ 43expertise rating /54+hit and of course i noticed a very noticeable threat gain.

What about ferals gearing towards expertise, does it really makes sense ?

In most cases i do the boss tanking as MT...the only encounters we use our feral as mt is Morogrim (our healers found that more comfortable) and Solarian - on Solarian cause of "the ferals higher threat output", but is that still the case ?

I would really appreciate to hear some of your oppinions or experiences :)

thanks & merry christmas guys *g*

Taelas
12-22-2007, 08:49 AM
There is no tanking gear with Expertise for druids (aside from the jewellery), but if there were, it would definitely make sense.

For MTing, I would not choose a druid above a warrior solely based on single-target threat output, especially not after the Expertise changes. A druid generates significantly more threat in an OT-position, though.

Baceramus
12-22-2007, 08:56 AM
I've run into the same situation with my guild's MT who is a bear. These days I can generate waaaay more threat than him, even in an OT position(most recent case being Gruul). Just make sure that if you are moving a warrior into the slot that a bear used to take for fights that the warrior can actually do it. If the warrior has the threat but not the mitigation/health that threat will simply be a burden.

Wrath
12-22-2007, 09:20 AM
thx for the response so far :)

That ferals are still, and will allways be superior in terms of OT threat gen is no question.

And dont get me wrong, i just asked myself if we could get a dps optimization (not that we needed one @ that nerfed-to-death "boss") if i tanked solarian and our Feral would dps her...

beside that, are here any T5/T6 Tanking Ferals that use Brooch of Deftness & maybe even Shapeshifter's Signet ?

Stegho
12-22-2007, 09:41 AM
thx for the response so far :)

That ferals are still, and will allways be superior in terms of OT threat gen is no question.


I disagree with that. Warriors scale with gear a lot more than druids. And devastate spam is massive aggro these days.

And if you have a warrior that can be touched by an equally geared druid in single target threat, you have a warrior that does not understand how to play.

Melange
12-22-2007, 09:49 AM
Druids having better threat is largely a product of the tanking party setup that most guilds use. Add a shaman to your tanking party and the warrior can easily out-threat the druid.

My guild does not currently have shamans, but we tried it one time a long while ago on a VR kill. Both warriors were partied with the shaman and I was not. They both held VR longer than I did on that kill. Normally I would have VR about the same amount as the two of them combined.

As far as expertise goes for druids, there is the neck, which is the only piece you can use in your general tanking set. The ring, the gloves, shoulders, and the belt can be used when not needing armor. That means if you are in a resist fight, or are not taking much damage you can use them if you don't have a protection piece in that slot.

Also if you are a T6 druid, the belt, the best piece, might just still be enough armor to keep you over the armor cap. I do not have the belt and doubt I will get it, because we do not want to kill Vashj, but it is clearly the best piece and I want it.

Brooch of Deftness
Shapeshifter's Signet
Gloves of the Searing Grip
Shoulderpads of the Stranger
Belt of One-hundred Deaths

Wrath
12-23-2007, 09:29 AM
I disagree with that. Warriors scale with gear a lot more than druids. And devastate spam is massive aggro these days.

And if you have a warrior that can be touched by an equally geared druid in single target threat, you have a warrior that does not understand how to play.

Beside the fact that warriors have way more posibilitys in terms of threat pushing gear, a good Feral should produce more or at least a compareable amount of threat gen in an ot-position.
In Our Raid Setup we have Warriors in MT1&2 positions and our Feral is tank3...so at least in T5 level dungeons the only encounter that "needs" 3 Tanks is VR... and due to his pounding abilty rage-gerneration isnt a really big issue...
But i think if you have a 2 tank encounter without rage-producing aoe damage on both tanks, warriors without wf-totem are definately not superior over Ferals even after the huge devaste buff - at least if youve got ferals that know how to play... still this might have changed with expertise.

Taelas
12-23-2007, 01:02 PM
And if you have a warrior that can be touched by an equally geared druid in single target threat, you have a warrior that does not understand how to play.

In an OT-position? No way.

superwombat
01-11-2008, 08:23 PM
There is no tanking gear with Expertise for druids (aside from the jewellery), but if there were, it would definitely make sense.

For MTing, I would not choose a druid above a warrior solely based on single-target threat output, especially not after the Expertise changes. A druid generates significantly more threat in an OT-position, though.

I'm not really up-to-date on high tier feral tanking gear. But I know most of them start with Earthwarden so there's some free expertise there.

Taelas
01-12-2008, 03:14 AM
I honestly hadn't considered it. (Which is silly, as my own druid has it still.)

Still, Earthwarden gets replaced in SSC for Wildfury Greatstaff. The Dodge and stamina increase is more valuable, in my opinion.

Ceravantes
01-12-2008, 06:55 AM
In an OT-position? No way.

Perhaps that was/is the case at your progression level, bears scale early, they don't get a whole lot better than they are in t4 content, and they start to slip in the early 25 man content. I can out threat every tank in my guild, Void reaver for example, our last run through I had salv on and did not notice it, and still was able to out threat our second warrior, feral druid and prot pally. All of whom are geared similar to myself.

With the changes to devastate and the addition of expertise I have been able to atleast do 1.5 times the threat of all our tanks in most situations.

Atomsk
01-12-2008, 07:28 AM
In Karazhan, I had issues out-aggroing a feral druid OT, but as my gear has improved and I have moved into harder 25 man content, in addition to the chnages made to warriors, I have no issues out-aggroing any of the other tanks in my guild, no matter what class.

Fame
01-12-2008, 09:16 AM
Having MTed on my Warrior aswell as my Druid (both with T6 gear) I can tell you the following from my own experiance.

-as an MT wearing exp/hit/bv (full threat set without wearing any pure dps pieces) in a constant rage scenario, a warrior will cap out at around 1400 sustained.
-as an OT wearing exp/hit/bv, a warrior will cap out at around 1000.

My Druid still has alot of gear to obtaine till i have 'THE' threat set, however as an MT without the 4pc t6 bonus, or the LC exal ring, I was pulling in sustained 1500. I aquired both of those pieces and saw a nice increase in my TPS. I'm posetive that with the ideal set I will be pulling in 1800 sustained TPS (if not way more) I was able to tank 96% of VR when the MD went on the Warrior MT who I quickly passed on threat a few sec into the fight. (with the MD on me and me starting the fight off, I would be so tank him from 100-0)

If you look at our Teron kill where i had 1500 (at least) sustained TPS, you will see that about 25% of my attacks were avoided. Where as my Warrior, i would see 2-5% avoidance against me. This is a direct result of expertise. Cutting those numbers in half would sky-rocket my TPS.
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/s1jy53tenqbcy?s=10162-10309)

This is a quick profile that I came up with for an ideal threat set for ferals. If your #1 goal is threat and the boss is bairly scratching you, I would put on the shoulders from Hydross and gloves from Al'ar for the max experise set.
SKIT - Character - World of Warcraft - WoWDigger (http://wowdigger.com/character/view/47177/skit#o0)

Taelas
01-12-2008, 09:39 AM
Perhaps that was/is the case at your progression level, bears scale early, they don't get a whole lot better than they are in t4 content, and they start to slip in the early 25 man content. I can out threat every tank in my guild, Void reaver for example, our last run through I had salv on and did not notice it, and still was able to out threat our second warrior, feral druid and prot pally. All of whom are geared similar to myself.

With the changes to devastate and the addition of expertise I have been able to atleast do 1.5 times the threat of all our tanks in most situations.

In an OT-position, a warrior will not outthreat a druid, assuming they are equally geared and equally skilled.

A Feral druid deals more damage and generates rage on all crits, even yellow attacks -- and all of a Feral druid's attacks can crit. A warrior has to generate rage on his own, but while his attacks hit faster than a druid's ever will, he will not deal the same white damage. He will not generate anywhere near the same rage, especially due to the Feral druid's completely massive benefit from Agility. A tanking Feral druid will have 20%+ crit at higher gear levels. Unbuffed.

If a Feral druid with equal gear to yours isn't pulling more threat than you when you are both in an OT-position, then you're more skilled than he is, plain and simple.