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Alent
12-20-2007, 09:52 PM
Ok... just throwing out some musings since I did it with a solid group last night for the first time, looking for some strategy feedback from my fellow tanks. (note: I'm a bear tank, so sub your own class' strategies in... Although to a point I've tried to translate as I want to get more understanding on the other tanks, so I know when to move over and let the arms warrior tank.)

Trash pulls:
I didn't really find a pull order I was confident in saying was definitive, but I generally went for the melee first and tossed on a fire resist neckpiece so I could safely deal with casters later. Caster pulls I had the casters sapped and would faerie fire them mid fight for extra hate when CC broke. (FF doesn't break sap)

With a pally's fire resist aura I was mitigating 75% of the fire damage consistently, and if they jumped to the healer he would mitigate about 60% of it with no resist save his own. He was comfortable and safe taking occasional fire damage even in quest trash 64~68 gear (he had no higher end instance gear), so we were safely able to proceed with DPS and tank focusing solely on melee even when the casters decided to "Burn" him down.

As far as the Doggies go... Hibernate is your friend on dog pulls. Even tanking you can pull with Hib and have plenty of time to shift and charge. Spares the healer some mana since only one dog gets in his opening burst.

Watchkeeper Gargomal:
Fun DPS race... the way I like to take this is to have a rogue sap the closest healer, burn the other down in around 6~8 seconds then just DPS race the boss. A good test of your DPS just to see if they can overpower the healer when Sap wears off, and easy enough to tank both. If the DPS can't overpower the heals, then I'd say look for new DPS.

The Caster Pull at the spiral ramp
So, this pull always gave me hell originally when I hit outlands, so I mention it specifically even if most people think it's easy. Shadow Resist gear/buffs Sap one, trap/sleep another, Burn down the melee first, Casters in turn. LoS the pull. Faerie Fire/Ranged attack the melee guy, run around the corner and let the pull come to you. Enrage/Bloodrage/drink so you can drop Thunderclap, Swipe or consecrate as they round the corner. From here it's a normal tank n spank DPS race before the CC breaks. I take 3 just fine, but if more or less CC is available it should be fine because of how tightly packed the mobs will be as they round the corner. You could probably AE this pull if a good resist buff is available as long as the tank locks the Melee guy in place.

Getting in The Courtyard
Hibernate/sheep or worst case scenario pull the closest dog when he enters your field of view on the left side of the arch for a clean pull. If he gets too far to the right you social the others. Rest of the courtyard is simple.

Omor the Unscarred
Serious candidate for the Easiest Heroic Boss in the game? I didn't really take much damage at all even with just shadow resist aura and the felpups can be mangled or Shield Slam'd as they spawn and I usually burn them down along with the DPS since I tend to have a strong hold on the boss and the DPS isn't building that much threat since they're on the felpups, too.

Vazruden the Herald
So I've gotten in the habit of Charging Vazruden before he jumps off Nazan (Who's the wrong element. Phantasy star 4, anybody?), causing the first fireball to come at me. (maybe more than the first? I always seem to get hit first, but anyhow) This puts me at a tight pinch as I have to maneuver over and slam Vazruden before he runs for the rest of the party, but from there I pull him over near the Horn and tank him in that spot.

When Nazan descends, he lands by the horn which means he lands in melee range. I mangle/lacerate him up while swiping and refreshing lacerates on Vazruden. This is the only thing I could come up with to hold control on both of them. If anyone else has other ideas... (I know for a while in normal ramps I could hit Feral charge, Maul as Vazruden was shouting and I'd practically hold Nazan's attention for the entire fight with just that initial hit on him... but they've long since fixed that bug.)

Of course, I do the usual thing of circle strafing To keep out of flames, fire resist gear and buffs, etc.

So... any suggestions for improving my runs on ramps? I know it's probably trivial to everyone, but I figure since there aren't many heroic guides vs all the raid guides, it'd be fun to start a thread with a psuedo guide and see what others had to chime in. I suck as a tank, so I expect to see lots of suggestions. :^)

Shortypop
12-21-2007, 03:17 AM
All sounds smooth I'd add the following options:

- Depending on your cc and gear-level, I've taken to tanking the melee and just letting the dps nuke the casters and ranged. This is easier for me than having to group up mobs that run to you and mobs that dont :)

- I've taken to pulling the pat on the central outside area (by the two last bosses first), a fast ranged weapon decreases the chance you'll pull one of the side packs too.

- Omor only gets tricky with melee dps as they need to watch for the debuff and if the tank gets it they need to run out too. Having said that he's kinda fun if you have a lock and some fears - banish and then fear the felhounds and worry about them once Omor is dead.

- I've never thought about charging Vazruden, I usually just tank him near the bridge off his platform, and when Nazan lands run over and tank him, by that stage the dps will battle to pull Vazruden off me before they kill him even while I ignore him :)

Sandal
12-31-2007, 03:36 AM
My biggest problem in this instance is the somewhat unpredictable social aggro.
But generally I just mark the caster mobs for sheep and we bring down melee mobs first. As beeing a pala tank I dont have problems with holding aggro on 4+ targets.
So we bomb the group at spiral ramp, too. I pull, move back into this tiny corner next to the door. Drop a consecrate, turn my wings on, AE them down.

Omor as a pala tank is really hard because his adds will burn all my mana and kill my aggro :(

I am tanking Varzruden near the bridge, too and as soon as the dragon lands I move into the platform to give my mates more room to evade his fire. However I think he is not nearly as painful, as in normal mode at lvl 60 where one lucky fireball/hit combo would kill you.

Arlana
12-31-2007, 06:57 AM
Just a note on Omor.
I've found that the easiest way to down this boss is to have a ranged dps tank him like a mage or lock.
he always stands still, have all the ranged dps stand out of range of eachother so no matter who the debuff goes to, no one gets hurt. Me along with melee dps just stand behind omor and burn down the adds while keeping them out of range of mana users.
The healer just heals through shadow bolts, and no one else takes damage. VERY easy fight.

Alent
12-31-2007, 10:56 AM
@ sandal: Somewhat unpredictable social aggro? I thought it was all pretty consistent. Which areas in particular, the pat near the first boss?

@ Arlana: I've thought about it, and sometimes I have the casters to make it work. I've seen a few videos of it, I guess next time I go I'll have to take my psycho Ele shammy along. (Who professes that he likes to get as much hate as he can because he enjoys stealing aggro and wiping groups...)

Sandal
01-01-2008, 07:19 AM
Arlana: I think i try this next time :) Nice idea.

Arlent: I know how this mobs are named in engl. wow, sorry.
Throughout the instance there are mobs moving from one group to an other which seem to have a really high social aggro range.
I can't describe what exactly goes wrong, but in this instance I have obviously more failed or not so perfect pulls than in most other instances, although I think I am relatively experienced in pulling :)

Alent
01-01-2008, 12:16 PM
Sandal, the trick on the ones that walk back and forth in ramps is to watch the floor, and memorize which group comes from which floor positions. They don't have a social range, they "link" to the groups based on what I call floor zones. At least, this is the theory I have, because the distances don't fit with the social aggro model that all the other mobs in the dungeon do.

Dunmail
01-04-2008, 04:29 AM
Mage 'Tank' also works well on the second boss. I thought it was a joke at first, but it saves faffing with debuffs, and makes it a minor task to pick up a couple of adds until he goes down (very quickly).

I wish someone had thought of it, when I did Ramps as my first heroic, when I was panelbeaten all the way around to him before the PUG collapsed after a few wipes on him.

Moshzilla
01-19-2008, 09:49 PM
When hitting the outside courtyard, before Omor and Nazan, I will let the patrol with the two pups walk and when they are outside aggro range, generally on the other side of the courtyard, I will los pull either the right mobs or left mobs, depending on how I'm feeling that day. You can then pull the patrol either when both of those two groups are clear (I prefer this), or when one of the groups are clear (which I've just started to become comfortable with), generally the right group. It is the safest way.

Moshzilla
01-19-2008, 09:50 PM
I've heard of the mage/warlock tank strategy on Omor. How and why does this work ?

Alent
01-20-2008, 07:52 AM
Hm, I've tried LoS pulling the groups when the pat is gone, but it's usually just as easy and faster for me to just ninja pull by sleeping one of the two doggies.

As for the mage/warlock tank logic: Omor doesn't move. He's perma-rooted in place and attacks with shadowbolts, etc. Both mages and warlocks have magic based systems for mitigating his spell based damage, Warlocks with nether protection, mages with mana shield and a few other toys I don't know since I don't play mage. In theory this leaves the actual tank free to squash the fel-puppies, which will run over and manaburn the casters to death.

Moshzilla
01-20-2008, 08:52 PM
Aah ok. Yer I tend to lag a bit and latency is high so a pull like that is risky for me. I need to work around it.

Great explanation, thanks for that.