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View Full Version : Shield Slam dmg affected by your MH weapon?!



dorfwawwior
12-20-2007, 05:10 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere on the stickys, but someone in guild told me that main hand weapon dps affects shield slam dmg or some component from the main hand weapon. I thought this was bs, but I just tested it out, did a couple slams with no weapon and one with my normal weapon. The weapon in question is Mallet of the Tides which has NO stats that would increase block value at all. I saw about a 40 dmg difference between no weapon and using a weapon. Is this due to when you have no weapon equipped the 1H spec talent doesn't apply to the equation for shield slam? I didn't test with say a really low dps weapon, gonna do that right now.

Yep, as I suspected, weapon dps doesn't do anything to shield slam dmg. The only thing that boosts it is actually equipping a weapon in the main hand to give the 10% from 1H spec talent if you are specd for it.

Wanted to add that weapons with stats that boost str or crit could also affect the performance of shield slam, yet to see a weapon with BV on it.

adrenalize
12-20-2007, 06:01 PM
I think the reason its not mentioned anywhere is because one would assume you have a melee weapon equipped 99% of the time anyway(unless the mob can disarm, then why wouldnt you) But i bet you would get the same resuly with a skinning knife eupipped and not equipped

Baceramus
12-20-2007, 06:41 PM
Even when disarmed I hit for the same SS damage. Yeah, your other weapon doesn't add anything other than maybe crit if that stat is stacked into the gear. Nothing to the damage itself.

Narshe
12-21-2007, 03:37 AM
Maybe your guildie mistook the One-handed spec talent? That talent increase your SS damage, but that's nothing related to your weapon increasing your SS damage.

OldHarry
12-21-2007, 07:17 AM
Is SS "normalized"? If so, then it would make a difference whether you had a dagger or sword in your main hand? If that would make a difference then it stand to reason it would also make a difference if you had nothing in your weapon slot.

thugthedum
12-21-2007, 07:25 AM
40 damage isn't statistically worth chasing if we're talking about a sample set of two. How many shield slams did you perform, armed and disarmed?

Ont
12-21-2007, 08:20 AM
Is SS "normalized"? If so, then it would make a difference whether you had a dagger or sword in your main hand? If that would make a difference then it stand to reason it would also make a difference if you had nothing in your weapon slot.

Normalization only occurs on attacks that have the term, "weapon damage" in them, be it "causes 50% of weapon damage" like Devastate or "deals weapon damage plus..." as in Mortal Strike's case.

Further, normalization is only used to determine how much benefit your attack power gives to your attack. To put into perspective, with 800 attack power and an Arcanite Reaper (3.8 speed, 204 average damage), your Mortal Strike would do:

204+(800/14)*3.4+160 = 557

Whereas, unnormalized, you'd see:
204+(800/14)*3.8+160 = 581

Sarcows
12-28-2007, 12:26 PM
Your main hand damage does not not affect your SS damage, but your chance to hit with your main hand weapon DOES affect you chance to hit with your SS. I found this out while leveling up my mace skill after getting the Mallet of the Tides.

dorfwawwior
12-28-2007, 02:13 PM
40 damage isn't statistically worth chasing if we're talking about a sample set of two. How many shield slams did you perform, armed and disarmed?

I didn't perform a whole lot of slams, but from what i found, the difference was in line with the 10% from 1h spec.

Taelas
12-28-2007, 06:02 PM
Normalization only occurs on attacks that have the term, "weapon damage" in them, be it "causes 50% of weapon damage" like Devastate or "deals weapon damage plus..." as in Mortal Strike's case.

Further, normalization is only used to determine how much benefit your attack power gives to your attack. To put into perspective, with 800 attack power and an Arcanite Reaper (3.8 speed, 204 average damage), your Mortal Strike would do:

204+(800/14)*3.4+160 = 557

Whereas, unnormalized, you'd see:
204+(800/14)*3.8+160 = 581

Nitpick: Normalized 2-handers are 3.3, not 3.4. Also, only instant attacks are normalized. Slam, for example, causes "weapon damage plus 140", but is not normalized as it has a casting time.

Sidousai
01-17-2008, 11:02 PM
You probably have 1 handed weapon specialization talent. The 5% extra damage from the talent also applies to your Shield Slam, but you'll only get the benefit when you have a weapon equipped to trigger the condition.


Sidousai
Last Stand!
Shield Wall!

Grabmill
01-24-2008, 05:43 AM
Before 2.3, there were rumours (I've never seen them confirmed and was too lazy to test it myself) that Shield Slam was affected by the weapon skill of your MH weapon. This means that if you had higher weapon skill, your shield slams would hit more.
If expertise works the same, there could be a difference indeed.

To test it out, you would need to have a warrior, high enough level to be able to take Shield Slam, but with one of the weapon skills still very low. Start Shield Slamming and write down the number of hits/misses/dodges and so on (or just process the combat log).

Hypatia
02-03-2008, 08:08 AM
In my experience, Shield Slam, even though you look like you're hitting with your shield, can be treated like any other special attack using your main-hand weapon.

Before +weapon skill items were replaced with +expertise items, this meant that your MH weapon skill impacted your performance with Shield Slam. Actually, that hasn't changed: it still does, it's just that MH weapons won't add to weapon skill any more. Instead, you might notice that you lose expertise when disarmed if you have a +expertise racial with certain weapons. You will definitely notice the penalties of poor weapon skill if you are disarmed and have not maxed out your unarmed skill.

The other big thing to note about this line of behavior is that any procs that your main-hand weapon can apply will also be applied with Shield Slam hits. If you have Mongoose, it can be procced by Shield Slam just as easily as by Devastate. Anything that can proc off of a MH yellow hit can proc off Shield Slam.


In short: Shield Slam is just a yellow attack, like any other. It behaves no differently from Devastate, Revenge, or even Hamstring, except in terms of how its base damage is calculated and its special ability to purge magic buffs.

Nikya
02-05-2008, 06:37 AM
I've read in numerous places that One-Handed Weapon Mastery or whatever increases all damage done by 10% as long as you have a One-Handed weapon equipped. So yeah, if you didn't have a weapon equipped, you would be losing that 10%. I've also read that the same holds true for the Paladin talent; Consecrate and all that other stuff is affected by their talent as long as they have a 1H equipped.