View Full Version : Kael questions

12-17-2007, 09:56 AM
Hey everyone,

My guild is currently working through the Kael encounter and it seems to be going well. We got into phase four three times last week, including once with 23 folks up and 2 advisors down.

We're having some definite problems with Cap. Our lock tank has had a very hard time finding the 'magic spot' where she won't run up and put him in conflag range. I've read that this should not be a problem in phase three as the staff buff will prevent the disorient. However, the conflag still seems to disorient the lock for a second even with the staff up. During one pull, she conflagged the lock and ran to the middle of the room. This of course led to all sorts of problems.

Any suggestions? This seems to be our one sticking point in the first three phases. We've stuck a second lock / healer pair back there to "off tank" as a stop gap, which is working, but it seems like an inelegant solution.

12-17-2007, 10:03 AM
The staff buff is kinda tricky sometimes. I tell everyone who picks up a staff to click it at least once every 10 seconds to make sure the buff is up.

For example, if the tanking warlock has the staff buff and someone else in range of them activates theirs then runs out of range, the buff will sometimes drop off of the lock (which means he would have to activate the staff again to regain the buff).

If that's not the problem, just make sure your tank is standing at absolute max range. (Make sure they have destructive reach. The extra range is more important than the 10% threat reduction.)

12-18-2007, 03:57 AM
In P1 you can have another lock building aggro. You can also use a hunter pet: she will spam madly her arcane explosions, leaving little room to do conflags or regular fireballs.

12-18-2007, 10:21 AM
We've been using the two lock plan on our last few pulls. It works, but that's less dps on Thaldred.

Hadn't thought about using a hunter's pet...how badly do they get torn up by the arcane explosions (only one way to find out I suppose!).

12-21-2007, 03:12 AM
We've been using the two lock plan on our last few pulls. It works, but that's less dps on Thaldred.

You don't need two locks on Phase 3 (the staff makes the conflagrates a non-issue), only on Phase 1.

The ideal position on Phase 1 if you wanna use a single warlock is to stay at 35 yards exactly (one step back and the lock can't cast Searing Pain, talented I think). But sometimes Capernian will come close anyway and conflagrate the lock. Shit happens...

12-21-2007, 05:10 AM
We've been using the two lock plan on our last few pulls. It works, but that's less dps on Thaldred.

For P3, you just need a healer and ur designed ranged for Capernian. The conflagration issue is resolved by having the staff buff applied to those 2 people. Staff should die in P2 and the warlock shall have looted, equipped and used it so he doesn't get disoriented by the conflagrate effect. Damage from conflag is healable as long as his healer have the mace (again is a must have to kill the mace in P2 and that healer should loot it).

Capernian is just stupid in P1, P3 is not an issue.

PD.: Frodo pakete!

12-21-2007, 07:21 AM
not saying this is the right way, but here's how we did it - and we never had issues with Cap (the other advisors are another story):

Phase 1 - We position Cap at the opposite end of the room to KT, somewhere between the 2 doors, as central as possible. She is picked up by a lock who kites her the full length of the room, and we have a tank build some threat and get into conflag range.

Once the lock has gotten all the way to the back wall it usually takes a few moments to find the 'sweet spot' where they are out of conflag range but in spell range, and some finger crossing that Cap doesn't just randomly run somewhere. Once the range is set, then the conflag tank moves out and ranged DPS begins.

Phase 3 - She is picked up in exactly the same spot by the lock. It is IMPERATIVE that the lock is there before she pops and ready to pick up. Keep the staff buff up at all times and just assign a healer to keep the lock alive. We nuked cap down last of all the advisors (if you care, the kill order was Thaladred / Telonicus -> Sanguinar -> Capernian), and she was usually alive well into phase 4, if not for the duration.

Just get her parked at the back of the room, keep the staff buff up, keep the lock healed, and ignore her until you have sufficient free time to deal with her.


- DW

12-21-2007, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the cap advice guys. We got her figured out now and phase three is getting better and better.

The major issue we have had this week has been figuring out healing assignments. Our two best pulls (Thal / Telon down, Sang at 30% pre-Kael) end badly due to the Sang tank dying just too early. We think we have this resolved so we should be ready to spend some quality time in phase four.

For phase four, how important is it to free the MC'ed individuals as opposed to just keeping them crowd controlled? We're very light on people that could actually break others free (one rogue, one dps warrior, one Enh shaman, no OT prot warriors) but we have a host of mages and locks to chain fear / sheep bunches of people easily while keeping our melee on dps and interrupts.

Lastly, in phase five, is it really just spread out, stay 10-15 feet up, don't pass the MT in threat, and counter spell the first fireball post landing so he runs to the MT rather than risking nether vapor debuffs? That seems so....easy compared to phases 2-4.

12-21-2007, 12:26 PM
Also, we tried a hunter tank for Telonicus. It worked very well when Telon was tanked at his starting spot, with all the bombs going for the hunter who could dodge most of them.

We then moved Telon's tanking position further back in the room and suddenly the bombs would fly at random. Our hunter tank had a solid amount of threat and individuals that were barely on the threat list would get hit...including myself who had done one blood rage and a priest who got hit, died, soul stoned back up and was targeted again.

Anyway, we've now put a bear on him and it works fine, but it was just an odd behavior quark and I was wondering if anyone had experience trying to tank him at range.

12-25-2007, 08:14 PM
Actually the dangerous thing about MCd people is that they can waste mana, blow CC on the raid. They aren't dangerous usually (well, rogues are ><).

We use to have people fearing and then sheeping MC victims until the rogues/offtanks/dpswars menage to free them, or just letting them CCd if all the breakers happen to be doing something else or are MCd themselves.
The AI during MC will usually blast the mana in AoEs. One of the most dangerous thing is a Shaman using Bloodlust/Heroism, but we have always blown them in P2 so they are not up for P4 yet.
However, not breaking MC is not really a good idea, since you might end up with key people MCd (phoenix kiter/tanker, healers, interrupters, etc)

Phase 5 is so simple, if you get to p4 with 25/25 and noone does stupid mistakes, he dies :)

And about Capernian, our "backup method" for p1 was having the Main Tank staying in range for Conflags until the lock is in a good position. He doesn't have to tank Telonicus so he can stand there until she dies without any issue.

01-10-2008, 07:59 AM
So very close last night....66&#37; with 22 folks up, then we missed an egg, had two rogues and our dps warrior get MC'ed and do...unfortunate things to our healers, so we wiped at 53%. Then the server crashed. Was our first night where we got to call for DPS to go on Kael...we've had a lot of funky raid makeups due to the holidays.

Ah well...thanks for the advice in the thread...it's been really helpful. For dealing with MC'ed folks, especially melee, we're planning on keeping the healers at max range and a little spread out, and then getting freezing traps between the rogues and the raid. Then sheep, fear, etc, but with all the craziness going on in phase 4, it can be a little tough to keep that all organized. Any CC tips from the folks that have seen this a lot?

01-14-2008, 09:09 AM
Thanks for the help everyone...we got him :)

02-13-2008, 05:33 PM
Just saw for the first time ever (on WoWWiki) that the tank can spell reflect a pyroblast. Is this true? Confirm or deny? It seems too huge to have never heard about until an update within the last 2 weeks on WoWWiki.

02-13-2008, 05:43 PM
false information. Tanks cant spellreflect anything during the Kael fight, the only possibility to -absorb- the damage is Phaseshift Bulwark or you just "eat" the pyro with a last stand / nightmareseed / shieldwall rotation.