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View Full Version : Tips & Tricks for A'lar



Kavel
12-14-2007, 09:19 AM
UPDATED POST W/ COLLECTED TIPS:

- Spell Reflect his AOE knockback after a meteor to get right on top of him when he respawns and avoid buffets. NOTE: Since patch 2.4, spell reflect no longer works to destroy Flame Patches!!!!!

- Use an Intercept macro to get back up ramps

- You can run about 3 steps up the ramp during a quill to speed up getting back in melee once Al'ar returns to the platforms. My rule of thumb is not to go past where the white trim on the edge of the ramp gets back to full width.

More to come, I'm sure!

ORIGINAL POST:

Hey all,

We took our first shots at the A'lar fight last night after running past him for months.

I wondered if anyone had any tips/tricks for timing the run back up the ramp as he's up in the air doing Flame Quill. I was getting into position facing up the ramp (but not on it), then twisting my camera angle around to see when he stopped doing the Quill. However, I think I was losing about a half-second getting the camera re-oriented and starting my run up the ramp. He always got at least one Buffet off, and sometimes 2, before I could get back up to him.

I tried just targeting him instead of looking at him, but he doesn't have a cast bar for the Quill, so I couldn't tell when he's stopped doing the Quill. For those with more experience:

1) Is there some easy (but accurate) way you use to tell exactly when he stops doing the quill without having to turn your camera and look at him?

2) Is it just to be expected that the raid will take one or two Buffets before we're in range?

maddfez
12-14-2007, 11:25 AM
I stay focused on the ramp and one of our ranged dps is assigned to call out that he's moving and which way he is heading. If the call is prompt, you can get back up in 0-2 ticks. However, three is not unheard of even on a fairly quick run back up, especially if the tank covering the spot had to move from one of the northern platforms. We require everyone to have the hp to survive three buffets before coming on the fight...that stamina gear helps on astromancer as well.

If you're constantly getting him in 1-2 buffets you're doing fine. If you're struggling a bit, swiftness potions can make a nice difference. We used them for learning and I still carry a stack for emergencies.

Kavtor
12-14-2007, 12:00 PM
Intercept back up. Swiftness pots are good if you're not confidant you can make it. There'll usually be a tick or two of damage, but it shouldn't cause too many problems. Make sure you aren't killing an add at the same time just to be sure.

Paumedie
12-14-2007, 12:08 PM
Keep in mind also that you can stand several steps up the ramp without being hit by quill. Point yourself in the right direction, turn your camera so you can see him, and as soon as he's finished quill haul ass up the ramp into intercept range. He should only ever get off one buffet.

Bruizer
12-15-2007, 03:48 AM
I tend to jump down as he Quills, then run in a bit of an arc towards the bottom of the ramp (to move away from the wall). As I approach the ramp, I run up onto the lower 1/3rd of it. That way, I need to take some 2 - 3 steps before I'm in range to intercept him. Unless I screw up button-presses, I'll have him intercepted in 0 - 1 buffet most of the time.

With the intercept, you'll also automatically get placed right on the edge of the ramp so you remain in LoS of your healers.

Hatebringer
12-16-2007, 08:04 PM
Keep in mind you can Intervene any totems or players along the way back to the ramp

Atomsk
12-16-2007, 08:30 PM
Exactly, Intervene is an amazing way to cover some ground fast. Another thing is a swiftness potion, but thats if you want to be extra prepared for Al'ar. It isn't quite necessary, but it helps if you are really that anal about being back into place ;p An intervene and an Intercept should do the job for you ;p

Kavel
12-17-2007, 08:06 AM
Thanks everyone, these are some great tips.

I am most excited to just start pushing the limits of getting on the ramp while he's quilling. It was my understanding that being anywhere on the ramp, or even on that darker-colored brick area would get you quilled, so I might have just been standing too far away. I'll also pick up a few Swiftness Pots before our next attempt for those bad times when you're on #2 or #3 and you're the only tank on your side.

Intervene and Intercept are fantastic, as described, and I've been using them pretty liberally for everything from getting back to the ramp faster to crossing flame patches in emergencies. I think just pushing the boundary a little to find exactly how far I can get during the quill will be all the difference. If I get lined up so that I can just hit "W" and start running before I get my camera back into position, I think I can shave off that crucial 1/2 second or so. Knowing that most raids just accept that they'll take at least one buffet makes me feel better that I'm not doing something drastically wrong.

Thanks again everyone, I love having a site where you can boil things down to come from a tank's perspective.

Hatebringer
12-17-2007, 11:11 AM
Thanks everyone, these are some great tips.

I am most excited to just start pushing the limits of getting on the ramp while he's quilling. It was my understanding that being anywhere on the ramp, or even on that darker-colored brick area would get you quilled, so I might have just been standing too far away. I'll also pick up a few Swiftness Pots before our next attempt for those bad times when you're on #2 or #3 and you're the only tank on your side.

Intervene and Intercept are fantastic, as described, and I've been using them pretty liberally for everything from getting back to the ramp faster to crossing flame patches in emergencies. I think just pushing the boundary a little to find exactly how far I can get during the quill will be all the difference. If I get lined up so that I can just hit "W" and start running before I get my camera back into position, I think I can shave off that crucial 1/2 second or so. Knowing that most raids just accept that they'll take at least one buffet makes me feel better that I'm not doing something drastically wrong.

Thanks again everyone, I love having a site where you can boil things down to come from a tank's perspective.

Once you learn his moving pattern and you know exactly where you have to be at all times it is honestly pretty easy even without swiftness potions. As long as you Intervene and you're ready to Intercept Al'ar at the top of the ramp you should never have a problem.

elio
12-17-2007, 01:57 PM
Keep in mind also that you can stand several steps up the ramp without being hit by quill. Point yourself in the right direction, turn your camera so you can see him, and as soon as he's finished quill haul ass up the ramp into intercept range. He should only ever get off one buffet.

This is correct if you are facing the ramp stay on the side closet to the middle of the room and you can creep up quite a bit then intercept back when in range. Works like a charm.

Dozer

Colon
12-18-2007, 02:38 PM
Just curious, has anyone ever had intercept bug out on them and send you running down the ramp away from Alar, around the side and under him right below the pedestal? It's happened to me twice in the passed month. Not sure if maybe I hit intercept too soon?

perkele
12-20-2007, 02:30 PM
Yes, I have had intercept do the same thing to me. I'll be running up the ramp hit intercept and next thing I know my character is around back down the ramp :(

Armstrong
01-04-2008, 02:03 PM
Just curious, has anyone ever had intercept bug out on them and send you running down the ramp away from Alar, around the side and under him right below the pedestal? It's happened to me twice in the passed month. Not sure if maybe I hit intercept too soon?

Currently working on Al'ar.

This issue hasn't happened to me yet but it has been happening to our feral druid who handles the east ramp, I'd say about 25% of the time. Pretty annoying when buggy game mechanics wipe your raid.

I'm always on the west ramp, and I usually run up along the right edge of the ramp (away from the wall). I'm pretty sure Al'ar has always reached his fighting postition on the platform before I hit intercept. I'm thinking the problem may be occuring when a tank hits intercept / feral charge and Al'ar is still flying the last few yards of his path to the platform? Not sure really.

Kavel
01-04-2008, 02:41 PM
Wanted to say thanks on the tips about being able to run partway up the ramp during the quills. It seemed like I was safely getting as high as where the white band of decorative trim starts up without getting hit (there's a little area where the ramp starts to flare out with an overhang). When I could make it that far before he got back to the ledge, he was pretty consistently getting off only one flame buffet before I could get intercept back up to him.

Nicki
01-05-2008, 08:40 AM
Hasn't been mentioned yet, but would fall under a "tip or trick" description:

You can kill the flame patches in phase 2 with spell reflect. Just walk into them. You get a killing blow and everything. Cleaning up the flame patches makes the phase a ton easier.


REALLY? OMG ._.

Kavel
01-17-2008, 01:56 PM
First kill was last night, on only our third attempt since early December. Loved the tips I got here, and would like to confirm one more I found somewhere else.

- Using Spell reflect after a meteor will prevent being tossed back by Al'ar's whirlymajig, so you can get right on top of him after a meteor and avoid any flame buffets or worry about getting too close to him.

brain9h
01-21-2008, 07:28 AM
Thanks for the tips regarding using spell reflect. I just WTFPWNED our last fight by killing all the flame patches during times when I had melt armor on me, and could reflect the knockback as well, really great :D

Shaiden
01-24-2008, 09:51 AM
For those who are doubtful about the spell-reflect on the flame patches, There's a few things to keep in mind.
#1: Pop your spell reflect "JUST" before stepping in. Because...
#2: It takes 3-4 ticks of reflection (only one charge of spell reflect) to kill a flame patch. But this isn't a big concern even "if" you're tanking alar because...
#3: As long as you announce it, you can destroy flame patches when you're tanking al'ar too. The only other spell that will eat your spell reflect is his knockback during a meteor, and in that case, you probably shouldn't be trying to each the patches if you're currently tanking him.

Clifford
03-03-2008, 11:20 AM
Great advice here. Got him down easily thanks to you :D

Kavel
03-03-2008, 03:41 PM
I'll add this, for tanks using the "leapfrog" method for platform positions:

Unless he's coming to your platform next, be more focused on being within range of a ramp than waiting on your platform. The classic example is when Alar is at #1, and there are tanks at #2 and #3. If he quills, getting a tank to #4 in case he goes there can be tight. Instead of running to #3, that tank should hang back around #4 in case there's a quill. If he moves to #2, you'll still have plenty of time to get to #3 before he gets there, but you're in good position to get back to #4 if he quills straight from position #1.

This happens more often than you'd think because we tend to have him get a little buggy and camp out at #1 for a long time, periodically spawning phoenixes but not moving on to #2. Then all of a sudden he'll go up and quill. If the #3 platform tank is going "by the book" he'd be waiting at #3 that whole time, but it makes it unnecessarily difficult to drop down, get to the ramp, and back up after the quill.

Clifford
03-04-2008, 01:49 AM
Had him bug on platform #1 as well - actually the whole encounter seems a bit buggy, for example on one attempt he didn't spawn Embers for about 4 minutes O.o

I didn't use the above "leapfrog" technique but went for the following:
(1) One tank on platform #1 who is responsible for platform #3
(2) One tank on platform #2
(3) One tank on platform #4
(4) One tank handling the Embers. A dps warrior pulling the Embers off the righteous fury paladin waiting for the Ember tank to take them for killing.

Worked well and only requires four protection-specced tanks.

Irellman
03-04-2008, 04:22 AM
We downed Al'ar for the first time last night after 2 nights of attempts. The best tactic we found was to load up on tanks (we took 5 and a feral druid) to save any DPS deaths in phase 2.

Phase 1:

One tank on each platform in phase 1 (a warrior on 1 and 4 to intercept after a quill). Tanks on platofrms 2 and 3 aggro their add after Al'ar leaves and jump down to help the add tank pick up aggro on it. Melee take the add to 15% and run out to leave a single hunter to finish it off. Stop DPS on adds during the quill (we have had add tanks die by being shot up into the quill). Save adds from when Al'ar is at 30% and burn them to 30% each. Take your time, enjoy the fight.

Between Phases:

Everyone with an aggro drop must use it. Feign death, fade, etc. etc.
Everyone stay out of the middle, only those dealing with the adds stand near the door.

Phase 2:

Always wait until Al'ar spawns and whirls before moving in. You get a good idea of the distance you can stand without getting caught after you have tried it a few times. Three warrior tanks on Al'ar. Two paladin tanks and the feral druid on the adds.

Tank Al'ar as normal, taunt off the one with the melt armour debuff asap. Of the three warrior tanks on Al'ar at this stage, one has the debuff, one is tanking him and one is free. We use the free tank to build up rage and use spell reflect on the flame patches to remove them, this clears space for the raid. Make sure they are back in time for the debuff wearing off.

The add tanks pick up the adds and pull one to either side of the door you enter the room from. We use 4 hunters to burn the adds and keep melee on Al'ar at all times. Burn the remaining adds from phase one in this way at the beginning on phase 2.

During the dive bomb, everyone spread out and look up to see where Al'ar is going. No one go near the door except the add tanks.

Rinse repeat.

We managed to do it this way with over one minute on the enrage timer. A little slow but very safe way to control the fight.

Ceravantes
03-04-2008, 04:33 AM
Giant waste of raid spots, ther is no reason to need 5 tanks for alar. Using threat drops at p2 start is also unecessary, alar is tauntable.

Clifford
03-04-2008, 09:56 AM
On some of our earlier attempts when one of the three Al'ar tanks in phase 2 died it was still possible for our healers to heal through a melted armour debuff.

Belak
03-04-2008, 10:09 AM
If spell reflect works on Al'ar's AOE knockback, has anybody tried it on the similar ability that the hatchlings have when they blow up? If not, we'll try it next time we're there.

Sandmann
03-04-2008, 12:14 PM
in phase 2 we never have more then 2 tanks on alar. it is also doable to heal someone with melt armor if you're lucky have some avoidance and maybe use some cooldowns but you shouldn't be forced to heal someone with melt armor more then the few seconds the 2.nd tank need to spot(massspot/mocking blow if resist).
never tried if spell reflect on the adds work as i always tank alar never the adds but it should work...

bogeuh
03-06-2008, 03:22 PM
in phase1
we use two tanks on the platforms (1->3 and 2->4 plenty of time to run, but we have haste potions if we have to run from 3 to 1 or the other tank from 2 to 4 to intercept after a firequill and feel like we not gonna be there soon enough)
and two downstairs picking up adds (sometimes the adds stay a bit long on the tanks upstairs with the healing aggro (lifebloom and prayer of mending?) and you end up with two adds , so an extra lookout is nice

in phase 2
we use 3 tanks on alar (hate his high resist chance), but you could do with 2 if you get lucky or use soulstones on tanks or have enough combat rezzers, and yes , last stand/shieldwall all work

and 2 on adds again

(a fury warrior in prot gear = add tank)


transition between phases: tell your tanks to run to the spot where two adds just spawned, if they're not slow they can taunt al'ar as soon as he appears.

phaze
03-27-2008, 09:51 AM
Are the Flame Patches no longer removable via Spell Reflect?

We might be heading back into TK on Sunday, so I'd like to check up on the behavior of Flame Patches in 2.4.

Some reports are indicating that Spell Reflect is only working on the first tick of damage, before fading. This is not enough to kill the Flame Patch, and results in the Warrior getting roasted from the attempt.

Is this an accurate description of the 2.4 behavior of Flame Patch?

Clifford
04-01-2008, 05:11 AM
Did Al'ar on our way to clearing to Kael'thas on Friday and I can report that spell reflect no longer works on flame patches.

Delicatesse
04-08-2008, 10:59 PM
Did Al'ar on our way to clearing to Kael'thas on Friday and I can report that spell reflect no longer works on flame patches.

Not good :/ And does reflect still work on rebirth? I mean before 2.4 you could 100% avoid the knockback he does when he lands after a meteor. This allowed a safe and fast pickup with 0 or 1 buffets. Without that it was almost impossible to pick him up without at least 1 buffets, unless you risked a knockback.

Clifford
04-09-2008, 01:22 PM
Not good :/ And does reflect still work on rebirth? I mean before 2.4 you could 100% avoid the knockback he does when he lands after a meteor. This allowed a safe and fast pickup with 0 or 1 buffets. Without that it was almost impossible to pick him up without at least 1 buffets, unless you risked a knockback.

Not sure tbh - I didn't notice any knock-backs but then I spent a lot of time picking of the embers as one of the ember tanks died in a flame patch ... as did a lot of the raid :mad:

Bananasmasht
04-11-2008, 05:33 AM
:Note: if your tanking the adds against the back wall, watch out, not sure if its a bug or not but if your too close to the wall when flame quill starts you will get hit. We wiped twice because of that the other night.

Clifford
04-11-2008, 05:57 AM
General rule for Al'ar - avoid the walls and this goes for the entire raid.