View Full Version : Tempest Keep Difficulty
12-13-2007, 09:09 AM
I am trying to get an idea of the level of difficulty in TK, mainly Void Reaver right now to be specific, as opposed to Gruul's Lair or Prince. We have a slightly heavy melee raid group, and one of the officers is trying to stear us away from Gruul's to try out Void Reaver now. Thanks for any help.
12-13-2007, 09:12 AM
Personally I would think Gruul's Lair would be first. VR and Astro chick aren't that hard, it is just a lot of no one failing to do something.
I think out of kara, you're going to run into more trouble with the trash than the boss.
12-13-2007, 09:13 AM
General Consensus is do not skip gruul, He is a good benchmark of your DPS's Performance, and the is a pretty good retard check for the raid(after a ground slam, people who dont move away from other's) So skipping him isn't a good idea. If your DPS isnt up to getting Gruul down then your going to have problem's with Void reaver and getting him down before he enrages.
12-13-2007, 09:32 AM
I think I will know better after tomorrow. We have not attempted Gruul in a long time, and I think I was in most blues then, but for some reason one of the guild officers, who is a great feral druid tank, feels he will be useless in Gruul as he says "melee is way to gimped in this instance" referring to high kings encounter more I think, and due to our high number of melee, which might be around 10 or so, and some prot warriors, he is not sure what to do in the fight. I agreed with you and think it is a great check for not only gear, but for competence of a raid.
I forgot to include we have downed the first 2 bosses in ZA and probably make an attempt at the third our next raid there, so far we have done 2 then called it.
12-13-2007, 11:03 AM
we regularly have a lot of melee (http://wowwebstats.com/4fk1oaga2uk6a?s=2641-3131) on gruul. as long as they know to move its not bad. having recently been where you are i would recommend downing high king and gruul, then going after mag. if you can clear those three in a night that will net your raid 12 epics in roughly 3 hours. i cant think of many places that can top it.
there is good advice here (http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/raid-leadership-management/33190-looking-raid-progression-advice-2.html)
12-14-2007, 12:35 PM
Void Reaver / Solarian are easier fights than Gruul in theory, but the gear requirement is significantly higher. Also, it's a long and difficult trash clear instead of the relatively short clear to Gruul.
Mag / Gruul are great places to start whipping your raiders into shape a bit. If folks can't handle getting away from shatters, interrupts on adds, or cube clicking, they'll struggle even more on wraths of the astromancer and VR's orbs.
If you guys get really stymied on Gruul / Mag, then maybe visit one of those two for a break, but Gruul should be the next boss gear wise. The other option would be a visit to the Lurker Below. He's another coordination check but the dps requirement is quite low. Just perma-CC two of the melee adds (have OTs build aggro first) and then it's just healing the tank and dodging the spout.
12-14-2007, 02:43 PM
Thanks for the advice, I passed it on to the other officers in my guild so hopefully they listen some and try out the raids we should be progressing in. Gruul's Lair tonight after a long break from it, so see how that goes and hopefully make some progression and keep people coming back for the 25 mans.
12-14-2007, 03:43 PM
My current guild took out A'lar first in 3 nights total, then 3 shotted Void Reaver, then took down Solarian in about 5 attempts total.
The guild had learned Hydross before attempting A'lar - I joined between Hydross and A'lar, but my previous guild had downed Lurker but not Void Reaver.
All these fights are significantly harder than Gruul's lair due to gear requirements/strategy.
Gruul is a tank gear/healing check /non stupid dps check.
Lurker is similar but has more phases/issues to deal with.
A'lar isn't all that hard honestly, just need good tanks and good dps.
Void reaver needs high threat tanks and dps that can pump out 7000 dps over the course of a 10 minute fight. - be aware, dps likes to fizzle after about 3 minutes...
Honestly - start with Gruul - get him on farm - move in to either TK or SSC and focus on one or the other mostly to learn the trash mobs to the first few bosses.
If you go TK - learn A'lar and VR will be simple when you get to him, whereas if you skip A'lar and fail on VR you've wasted lots of time clearing trash and are time limited by repops. A'Lar requires NO resist gear which is the main difference between him and Hydross.
If you go to SSC - you can skip Hydross if you don't have tanks with the resist gear - and go for lurker - he's not that hard if you have people who pay attention. if you have the 4 tanks with resist gear, do Hydross first.
Many will say skip hydross and a'lar until later - but the skills you learn from doing those two first make the rest of the instance a lot easier.
Don't skimp on ZA either - or the badge gear - it makes a world of difference in some cases.
12-18-2007, 11:43 AM
Update, we had 1 bad pull made by one of the OTs getting to close before we were ready, and then took out HKM on the next attempt pretty easily, my healers commented on the ease of the healing through it, go EH gear. We got in a few good attempts on Gruul and got him to 19% but due to people still trying to get a rhythm for staying away from everyone during shatter, we lost to many people and then it was just slow dps and watch him grow till we were getting hit for 15k and wipe. Trying it again this week and see if everyone learned, but they still want to go ahead and make our way into Tempest and give VR a shot so I provided the info and recommendation but was outvoted lol. Oh well, I stand behind my guild and will give it my best right next to them.
01-08-2008, 04:34 AM
Maulgar itself is best tanked by a DRUID. Why?
He has 3 damage sources:
- melee: mediocre 3-5K hits, can crush
- arcing smash: 5-7K noncrushing special
- mighty blow: 6-9K noncrushing special
These numbers on 14K armor warrior... When he does an autoattack plus 2 specials in a short timeframe and your avoidance fails, you're dead. Druids can take those hits on the other hand.
As a warrior I had extreme difficulties keeping my debuffs on him, demo shout just goes to waste, no resists or whatever, I can see the animation above the boss' head and no debuff gets applied :O
So you better do it with a druid who can take the hits.
01-08-2008, 12:47 PM
We have been clearing the place pretty regularly now, well atleast for the last 3 weeks now. I have been tanking HKM with ease, and then I go to second on the list for Gruul while we have a pally tank go first. That seems to work pretty good while I take the bolts and there for backup if the pally goes down. No shoulders or shield yet but still hoping.
So we finally made our first appearance to TK, and got a few epics from trash and got to VR. Once on the boss, we had trouble dealing with him. I am not sure if we were using the wrong approach or what. Everyone was having trouble deciding to run in or out of the pounds, and that lead to arcane balls hitting melee, then people were slow to move away, which not sure if that is due to not being at max range or what. As for tanking, should we just be all out fighting for aggro, or trying to stay behind the first tank or what? We were trying to do a 3 tank on the top of the charts, which lead to a prot warrior and a feral druid holding back on aggro to stay behind the prot pally. I know we have a few people lacking the gear for this and our dps seemed slow, probably due to losing a chunk of melee early. Learning experience I guess for now.
01-08-2008, 02:44 PM
Pump out as much threat as you can as long tank keeps aggro you are golden, provided your healers switch targets.
higher threat means higher DPS ceiling = VR dying before he enrages.
That fight is a DPS/threat race.
we have a rivalry among our tanks for aggro gen. You should use every trick you can.
01-09-2008, 10:13 AM
Have the melee stay in on VR...they'll be leaps and bounds above your other DPS. It also prevent melee / tanks from getting orbed.
We generally have VR face south, OTs and melee get to his back, two designated melee healers in the north (resto shaman / CoH priests ideally), and the ranged stays east, south, or west so the melee healers have a minimal number of orbs to dodge.
Also, don't have any tanks hold back. Let you prot pally go in first if he's a little weaker on threat gen, but every tank should be going full bore. Also, remember if you get behind VR while you don't have aggro, you won't get parried so the tank takes less damage and you generate more threat.
01-10-2008, 01:23 AM
For VR we tell the melee to stay in for pounds if they are over 60% of their health - if not to run out, really they should be as if dodging the orbs goes well, there is not a huge amount of healing going round.
As for the tanks, yep it's an all out battle. Depending on your gear you can also swop in a few threat pieces, I also swop darkmoon card for the arcane res trinket (and stam) from kara quest. Hunters using misd's to any of the tanks throughout the fight can't hurt and if you have one I believe a shammy in the tank group can help their threat gen (wtb a regularl raiding shammy).