View Full Version : Druid Vs Warr Vs Prince
12-10-2007, 07:16 PM
So after a bit of progressing through Kara my guild now one shots everything up to Aran/Chess. we have a decision to make
Illhoof, Netherspite, Prince.......who to kill first?
The issue we have with our decision is based around Prince P2 which is the fast crushing phase. Team to date
MT - Druid Bear
OT - Druid cat.bear
DPS - Fury Warr
DPS - Lock
DPS - Frost Mage
DPS - Hunter
DPS - Shadow Priest
Heal - Holy Priest
Heal - Druid Tree
Heal - Druid Tree
4 x combat rezzes rocks
Now as the Fury Warr i have decent tanking gear already and an autoblocker.
The MT & OT are very equal with 16KHP and decent tanking gear for Kara.
Is there a problem with the druids tanking through P2. I know its harder for them but is 16K hp and decent gear for the progression enough to get them over the mark or should i respec to Prot to make the jump.....?
12-10-2007, 08:09 PM
I actually like when our feral druid tanks the prince. He has closer to 20k hp now but when we first started killing him I dont think it was that high. P2 is all about avoidance. As a war you will have the oh shit buttons but a druid will dodge quite a few of the hits during phase 2. Our feral druid has like 42.5% to dodge w/ GOA and trinket/idol procs so he dodges damn near half of the hits. Our group comp. varies so much its almost hard to really say. But we have had an easier time on prince using druid and paladin tanks than we do with our warrior tank. They have marginally better gear but what it all boils down to on the fight is skill and fast response times with the infernals etc.
12-10-2007, 08:37 PM
Prince is one of those few fights where hybrids make better tanks almost all the time. The biggest advantage wars have over hybrid tanks early on is crushing blow avoidance built into the class with shield block. This is nullified by DW boss with thrash thrown in.
With both wars and druids prone to crush the druid wins the mitigation. If they can get 34% or so dodge then they equal the warriors parry/dodge usually. Paladins are the best uncrushable option. Full prot they don't even have to build a full uncrushable set since he is a DWer and his base miss is 24%? I figure most paladins have the set by then if they're serious tankers, though. That means no crushes get through which makes keeping the tank up much much easier and the little bit extra dmg and loss of a few hps/armor is worth it.
When we have our paladin tank available I generally will go dps gear and just intervene a lot during P2 to try and intercept a sunder and maybe clear theirs and help with the spike dmg and keep him debuffed with thunderclap and demo shout.
Our Guild's MT is a Druid. He might be a bit better geared than your MT Druid (just due to 25 man stuff) but he does not have a problem with any kara boss (especially with fearward :D )
Prince should be fine. Top off. Dispell. DPS. Good lucks on infernals (or that "Safe spot" thing).
12-11-2007, 10:15 AM
A few things.
Netherspite: This is the easiest fight in Kara, gear wise, not counting the first boss. It is a retard check, which requires two, semi-intelligent tanks, and a two semi-intelligent DPS. Tanks do the red and green beams. DPS does the blue. You step in and out of the red and blue, and a good rule of thumb is 5 stacks on me, 5 on the boss. That gives it enough time for the buff to wear off the boss. Banish phase, everyone should be right up by him, moving away from his head.
Illhoof: You almost have a really nice raid setup for this fight. You are missing a paladin, which you need for salv, and concentration aura. The MT should be tanking Illhoof and the big imp, so threat is somewhat low. I do not recommend using a second tank for the add. More importantly the warlock is just going to have a hell of a time casting seed without some resistance to pushback. I would not recommend this fight without a paladin. I have seen the adds done by two warriors with whirlwind before, but if you can have the lock doing it, then you will largely not need to help him, outside of your normal whirlwind on the boss and the hunter's multishot on CD. Even without the paladin, this fight will likely be an easier fight than Prince, since it is less of a gear check than Prince. If you cannot get a paladin, I would put you and the warlock on adds, with the mage using Nova/CoC on CD, and the hunter Multishotting. Three healers is good for this fight. If there are only a few adds up, then there is not very much damage being dished out, and you can take a really long time actually killing him if you want. Just make sure to kill the chains really fast.
Prince: Druids are great for Prince, so that's not your problem. Again a paladin would be nice, as I'm sure you must be threat-limited, and also Druids get a HUGE benefit from Kings, both to health and to dodge. Also, just the health of your Druids doesnt really tell us much. Armor is the most important stat for a druid, and in this fight, dodge is very important as well. I think the most important thing you can do for Prince, is get rid of a healer. Despite the fact that it feels like a healing test, one more DPS can really get you out of P2 a lot faster, which means more mana. Have everyone topped off before P2, and tell them to run out if they would be killed by an explosion, otherwise have them stay in DPSing. Having three healers, will likely cause you to wipe on P3 even if you do get past P2, since you might not have the DPS to kill him before the infernals box you in.
Edit: One more thing, the Druid tank for Prince should use his Badge of Tenacity as soon as he needs it in P2. When it ends, he should use frenzied regen. That will be 30 seconds of a slightly easier job for the healers. If you are lucky, and you got to wait a bit before using the badge, you will lose Frenzied regen just in time for P3.
12-11-2007, 11:01 AM
One warlock is all u need for illhoof. two healers should be fine. Seed up all the adds (or illhoof himself). as long as ur dps is good enough to kill demon chains fast enough you got it. have a druid OT his add and he kill him by himself.
12-11-2007, 11:23 AM
I'll chip in on this question. If you're doing Prince and he's tough for you, the fury warrior needs to sacrifice his dps for this fight.
Have him go fight in battle stance, and his main job is to keep up demo shout and thunderclap up, but it is most important to do so during phase 2. That will take the edge off the dps incoming at the druid. Once Prince is >20%, then the warrior can swap back to zerker and go nuts with execute.
We run with a similar setup, and if I (I'm the fury warrior for my group) don't do those things, we always lose the tank near the last 1/3 of phase 2. You'll lose some dps for this one fight, but its worth it.
12-11-2007, 01:46 PM
One warlock is all u need for illhoof. two healers should be fine. Seed up all the adds (or illhoof himself). as long as ur dps is good enough to kill demon chains fast enough you got it. have a druid OT his add and he kill him by himself.I think that you are forgetting that this is a group that has not killed Prince yet. The first time I tried Illhoof, people had almost all blues. (Some of that was because the epics in Kara were largely worse than a lot of the better blues, so perhaps this lock has better gear) Our warlock had a paladin that time, and he still was not killing the adds fast enough. We ended up having a fire mage use his CDs as well. Without a paladin, you are going to get around 20% less DPS from the warlock, so I really think you should put the fury warrior on adds too. Having very few adds up, makes this fight very easy.
As far as having two healers, I could not see that either, for a first attempt. One healer gets chained, the other healer has three people to keep up until he gets out. It could happen, but its not making it easy on yourself. They have 3 healers anyways, why not take them.
The Druid OT is again a bad idea. That druid can do some great DPS if he's in kitty form. The MT druid can keep the add off the warlock. Just taunt it when it spawns, and tank primarily with swipe and maul, mauling the imp every once in a while. The swipes will help on the adds too, so it's really the way to go for this fight.
Your #1 priority is to kill chains dead. Your #2 priority is to handle the adds. Boss comes third. Think like that, and this is an easy fight. Make sure to have someone calling out who is getting chained.
12-11-2007, 11:07 PM
Prince is an easy enough fight for a bear tank. If you have 18K armor/health minimum, and 30% dodge, no worries. you should be able to pop badge at around 40% life left to help the healers catch up on healing if there's a problem. I still like having 3 healers on Prince, especially while learning the fight. all 3 on you while in P2 and a bear tank will have no problems tanking him.
Illhoof, I've seen a pally effectively aoe tank the room, I've swipe tanked Illhoof and a number of imps, and seen warrs tank without any problems. like was said, the big problem is getting everyone to flip to chains. You can have a MS debuff to help counter the heals too.
Netherspite is all about execution, people getting in their beams, and people watching under their feet. :) Any two tanks will do.
12-12-2007, 01:44 AM
My two cents for ilhoof, two warlocks is definitely easier when starting out, but with your group setup I'd put a feral tank on both illhoof and the big imp (a feral druid will kill this add by himself with some aoe help), have him in bear gear the first time, and he can replace with some extra damage gear as he feels.
Seed Illhoof and all dps on illhoof, with the fury change of sweeping strikes plus whirlwind a fury warrior is very good on this fight. Just make sure everyone stands close together to stop the imps running out of range and a fury warrior will be able to help lots. If the imps get out of hand the mage can help. /tar demon --- is your friend (for all tanks and dps).
As to which one to kill first, we did prince, illhoof, nether - but downed prince and illhoof for the first time in the same night.
My major problem with nether is there are so many ways to kill him, who to tank which beams etc etc. Try out a couple of options and stick to whatever fits your makeup. I'd sugest 2 ferals on red, one feral and fury on green, warlock and s.priest on blue. But you can put healers in gree, tanks in blue .....
12-12-2007, 03:35 AM
Tanking both Illhoof and the Imp together is very easy. I do it on both my warrior and my druid with no issues (and the imp dies from the AoE).