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Lollo
12-10-2007, 03:17 AM
Had our first tries on LV yesterday. :eek:

Any recommendations on how to grab the Coilfang Elites soon as they spawn? Intercept? Intervene? Other particular details?

Armstrong
12-10-2007, 07:49 AM
Had our first tries on LV yesterday. :eek:

Any recommendations on how to grab the Coilfang Elites soon as they spawn? Intercept? Intervene? Other particular details?

We're also still working on phase 2, but so far Intervene has worked well for me. Make sure you have an Intervene macro so you can just target the mob and automatically intervene its target.

While I tank the first Elite, the feral OT puts some cat DPS on it and then gets ready to pick up the next Elite in bear form and bring it to me. I taunt it off him and he helps with cat DPS again for a while, rinse and repeat.

We've also played around with having a pally in the inner circle run Righteous Fury to draw the newly spawned Elites away from other healers. It's yielded mixed results so far, but I feel that with a little more practice that should save a few priests and druids from getting one-shot.

Lollo
12-10-2007, 08:26 AM
Thanks Armstrong. That was exactly the experience I wanted to share.

Yesterday, for us it worked just by picking the Elites up as they spawned. But there was probably luck involved.

As to the intervene macro - I am a bit ashamed to saw but I don't have a working makro. :(

Can somebody help?

Thanks

Armstrong
12-10-2007, 08:44 AM
I use:

/cast [help] Intervene; [target=targettarget, help] Intervene


If you want the macro to also switch to Defensive Stance for you, use:

/cast [nostance:2] Defensive Stance; [help] Intervene; [target=targettarget, help] Intervene


Either version will work with a friendly target or with an enemy target who is targetting a friendly.

Lollo
12-10-2007, 09:30 AM
Thanks Armstong, much appreciated

maddfez
12-10-2007, 12:32 PM
That's basically how we handle it as well. Pally with RF up to help draw them to the middle (works sometimes...). Clear communication on who has the next naga or who has which side if there are no naga's up currently. Intervene macros and boots with boar's speed on them.



A secondary problem you'll have once you have the naga picked up routinely is getting it to a safe dps spot without cleaving anyone. (Safe dps spot = not in the kiting path)

We solved this by always pulling them right on top of Vashj and having our ranged / healers stand on the shield generator pillars so we have clear lanes to bring them through. Just be careful on the last bit of the approach if you still have one naga up...don't kill your melee!

Kavel
12-10-2007, 03:02 PM
It shouldn't hurt anything to use one, but you don't need a macro for Intervene anymore. Just using it while targeting an enemy will Intervene its target.

Lollo
12-11-2007, 02:01 AM
I found Intervene doesn't always work that way.

I guess that the enemy target has to have something in target to make intervene work. That is not the case whenever an enemy target 'targets' itself eg when it heals of buffs itself...

Colon
12-11-2007, 04:04 AM
From my experience hitting intervene as you are targetting the Naga does work as long as his target is within range of intervene. So many times I've lost a priest who just kept back awaying because their fade was down and kept staying out of range while I was mashing intervene. What's finally worked for us is since we only have two tanks, usually War/Feral, they each just cover one semi circle of the platform. Once a Naga comes up, anyone in the raid that spots it has to call out the quadrant, qudrant being where we assigned their party to be. They always come for healers first, so I'm mindful to keep the healers on my side of the circle within view. More often than not I've been at my healer in time to get them. Typically the healers that generate the most healing aggro tend to be near the center healing melee Naga dps, so we have been fortunate that they seem to come right for or resto druid and/or shammy most times. Plus a feral ot seems to be able to pick them up that much quicker most times anyway. Also our squishies do make the dumb mistake of running into a cleave so we also tank the Naga right next to Vashj all the time, as this is the best spot to avoid melee dps getting feared by a passing Strider and gives the squishies that get cleaved their, no chance for a rez so they learn their lesson on the run back.

pootail
12-20-2007, 11:58 PM
here is a macro i made to help with the naga pick up so the next time your mashing you intervene

/castsequence reset=6 berserker stance, intercept, defensive stance, taunt

Lollo
12-21-2007, 04:28 AM
Thanks Pootail

Noraxe
01-12-2008, 05:41 AM
Speaking of the elites. How many dps do you have on it?
We had a fury warrior on our first try. But in the end I was tanking 3 and the OT was tanking 2 nagas.
Really annoying ^^
Ah well 54% our first night cant complain :)

Worldie
01-13-2008, 06:26 AM
Every melee for us is on the elites, usually 4 or 5 iirc. Ranged also DPS them when there's no striders, and locks costantly dot them (nerf locks)

Lollo
01-14-2008, 03:06 AM
Speaking of the elites. How many dps do you have on it?
We had a fury warrior on our first try. But in the end I was tanking 3 and the OT was tanking 2 nagas.
Really annoying ^^
Ah well 54% our first night cant complain :)

We downed her now for two times (also thanks to your input here :) ).

3 melees + tank work fine. Have your strider ppl DPS the Nagas in the moments where there is no strider around. Also have your healers DOT them if in range.

EDIT: This might help you, too. (1) Tell your melee NOT to attack until the Naga is safely tanked. Its annoing to see a melee because the Naga wasn't stationary yet. (2) We have MT2 doing the Nagas and MT1 supplying him/her with new Naga spawn. That way MT1 is clear at the transition to p3.

Noraxe
01-14-2008, 08:46 PM
Got her down the next night :) Had 2 rogues and 1 enh shaman on the elites this time. With a paladin tanking em, and me gathering the elites if they were abit to far away from him.
So basically all 2nd phase I ran around looking out for nagas, intercepting the striders with berserker rage, and hamstring, sunder or execute. AND something that shocked me abit.
We tried with me scoring the touchdown on the cores. Went like a charm :)
Then 3rd phase was up so I went in and tanked her while the pala tank did the rest of the remaining nagas.
First attempt that night was 3% then we downed her the next attempt. So was Kael this night, but we didnt have our best geared dpsers so we wiped at 3rd phase. Ah well we need more gear anyway. To fast progression.

Thanks for the help all fellow tanks :)

Bao
02-12-2008, 12:37 PM
I have a question when we get into phase 3. Can I just kite her from outer circle to inner circle? Is the poison pool drop randomly or is it follow her?

Sandmann
02-13-2008, 01:53 AM
afaik its random. you can kite her at the outer circle but it will be easier for your raid if you keep her more or less focused in the inner circle

Thorgruff
02-14-2008, 03:19 PM
So we have made a few attempts on Vashj and we are really struggling on the killing the Striders, any suggestions on how to bring em down faster?

Clifford
02-15-2008, 04:44 AM
We have only had two hours on her so far (more coming this weekend) but my analysis of the strider problem is:
(1) Need about 6 ranged dps
(2) Keep ranged dps stationery in the middle but away from the naga. Last time they were running around after the strider loosing dps time.
(3) Tell them to give the kiter time to build agro (like any other tank) and dps naga for a few seconds
(4) Anything that will slow the strider down will result in more dps time.

Thorgruff
02-15-2008, 08:15 AM
yea ill suggest that thanks alot for the help

Lollo
02-19-2008, 09:08 AM
@ Bao:
I found it easiest to kite her around the outer circle. Tell your raid before you pull where the intended route is. Tell them to keep clear that route otherwise there will be puddles of poison on your way and you will have to kite her a lot which means you will lose A LOT of ranged DPS.

ttocs
02-19-2008, 12:16 PM
The way I've done it is to have me and the Feral Tank take a side. I usually take the west side, the Feral takes the east side. Just watch in a 180 degree area from where youre at. We both try to pick it up, and drag it to the middle. It does help to have a pally with RF up, as it's either them or a shaman (chain heal!) getting aggro.

Haven't had any problem in any of the attempts i've had.

And yes, intervene can be weird. Say the paladin that has aggro is on the north side, and the naga is on the south side... you run to the naga and rubberband back to the paladin. That's some lost DPS time that you'll need when you're trying to progress on her.

Just make absolutely sure that if you're MTing Vashj phase 3, that the Feral takes the Naga from you before the last core is shut down!

Edit: Whoops, need to L2readnextpage.

Clifford
02-19-2008, 04:46 PM
We had our first full evening on her on Sunday (4 hours) and managed to scrape into phase 3 a couple of times but not get her down. What is working for me is:
Setup
* 7 dps (mostly ranged) on stairs with four healers positioned approximately at each cardinal point. 3 teams of two dps and one team of one dps.
* Two tanks. I supplied my OT based on the advice earlier in this post, which worked well.
* Paladin healing with righteous fury in the middle to draw the naga.
* Two additional raid healers in the middle.
* Three melee (used rogues) on the naga and the elementals that leak through.
* One kiter and five ranged dps on the striders.

Fight
* The fight generally went smoothly when people got the core throwing sorted out. We used one of the melee dps (naga group) to switch off the generators.
* Stair groups had it under control with enough dps
* It went wrong most of the time on the striders. We either had agro issues (kiter couldn't keep agro) or if the ranged turned down their dps we had two striders up. Next time I will try another person to kite.

Conclusion
* The right mixture of classes is a big bonus (ranged to melee, healers to cleanse)
* Once you sort out who should be on which stairs then it works well. Just tell them to focus on the tainted when it spawns and let the naga melee pick up those that leak through.
* Ensure your healers cleanse the poison from the tainted elementals
* Use a paladin to draw naga elite agro.
* And most importantly .... get the strider kiting and dps working perfectly. Almost every wipe we had was due to the strider switching agro and running through the centre, which most likely will result in a wipe.

Hope this helps

Lollo
02-20-2008, 04:37 AM
One additional thought on p2: I found the key to the LV encounter to be communications.
-> Agree on the compass points. Everybody hast to be 100% clear on where north, east, west, and south is.
-> Make ppl annouce naga-, strider- and tainted-Spawns together with the heading. Makes it so much easier to pick up the mobs or the tainted core.
-> Make sure you are fast with the tainted cores: (a) don't let any tainted despawn, (b) agree on a way how the cores are thrown to the generators. For us it was always: DPSer picks it up -> throws it to the healer who is standing right at the edge of the outer ring -> throws it to dedicated receiver or his/her backup. We really had just two dedicated ppl involved in the core game on the platform.

Horacio
02-25-2008, 02:50 PM
First real night of attempts last night and at one point, got 3 generators down but it was a "hail mary" manuver with most of the raid dead...so lets say 2. We are having problems passing cores and stuff but mostly, its focusing DPS.

For those of you saying you have melee on elites, who is handling the the tainted spawns? We had 4 kill teams in each quadrant. 1 melee, 1 ranged, and one healer. They were supposed to kill elementals and pass the core from melee>healer>ranged in the center. We had a lock kiting with CoE and tailor nets. That left 2 shadow priests and two mages to DPS striders/elites plus a feral druid, an ele shammy and a lock roaming.

My thoughts after seeing one night was just a lack of focus fire and positioning. The elites were a problem, ie, tank getting them initially before they ate someone...suggesting the pally healing with RF up to draw them to a specific location already, we'll see how that goes.

So...I think :
2 mages
2 shadow priests
1 elemental shammy
1 warlock
DPSing the naga ought to take em down pretty quick then jump to the striders.

Overall, our raid DPS in other fights is reasonably high and we beat enrage timers by a healthy margin. But...we have some high output people and some stragglers. Not as bad as I have seen elsewhere but it exists. I should mention I raid as a healer these days for those that don't know. As a resto drood, I roam and try to heal up where I can, usually helping on tanks with naga elites. I led the healing meter on every attempt last night I didn't get eaten by a strider early.

Clifford
02-26-2008, 04:45 PM
We have had two nights on her so far and managed to scrape into phase 3 a few times each evening. Our problem is currently with striders i.e. killing one before the next spawns ... but I have some ideas for that when we next go there.

Here is the setup that seems to work best for us:
Western/Southern/Northern Stairs x3
1x Healer (poison cleanser a bonus)
2x Dps (pref ranged but one can be melee)

Eastern Stairs x2
1x Healer (poison cleanser a bonus)
1x Dps (I used a fury warrior here)

Strider Group
Kiter - Elemental Shaman (seems to generate more threat than a hunter or warlock)
5x Ranged (incl frost mages, shadow priests and CoEx warlocks)

Naga Group
1x righteous fury holy paladin
2x tanks
3x melee
2x raid healers (incl healing strider group)

Cores
- Stairs Dps -> Stairs Healer -> Designated Naga melee dps
- When a tainted spawns on the stairs they focus on it and melee and other strider dps nearing the kiter's agro must kill the elementals leaking through

Striders
- CC the strider often enough to allow the kiter to build agro
- When the strider dps gets close to the kiter's agro switch to killing naga and leaking elementals (CHANGE: Next time I go)
- When there is 20 seconds before the next strider spawns at least one ranged dps in each stairs dps group must switch to killing the strider (CHANGE: Next time I go)

Naga
- I pick up the naga and take it to my OT who will taunt it off me. I then look around for the next naga whilst occasionally hamstringing the strider.
- In almost all cases the naga goes for the paladin but ensuring that people call out clearly where the naga spawns usually enables me to pick it up in time if there is a problem
- Make sure people learn to clear a path from the direction the naga is coming. We are getting better at this and seldom have someone dying from a cleave.

Conclusion
I believe that the advice of having teams focus on their own jobs is only good for learning the fight. Success will come from being more versatile than this. Stairs groups have to help on the striders and the Strider group has to help on the naga and elementals when they have are nearing the kiter's agro. Lastly the naga dps have to help kill elementals leaking through.

I will hopefully post a success the next time we go but this will only be in two weeks as my Frost Resist tank is away this weekend.

Clifford
03-09-2008, 04:46 PM
This tactic worked exceptionally well when people learnt to be more versatile in their targets. We managed to get her down on what was our 3rd evening of attempts.

Also I had three warlocks spec affliction for the fight that helped tremendously.

headrush
04-15-2008, 09:06 AM
Followed the posts here and after our 2nd night we got into phase 3 and I suspect she will go down today. with that said, the one question i have concerns tranquil air totems and do they stack with blessing of salvation.

we are using a shaman as the kiter and our locks are complaining that not enough threat is generated. our RL told me that blessing of salvation doesnt stact with tranquil air totems which i read that it does, thus giving our locks and mages more dps opportunities.

Clifford
04-16-2008, 01:44 AM
We had the same problem with kiter agro and solved it the following way:
(1) Our shaman respecced for the max range talent (whichever that is). This allowed him additional time to dps and frost shock.
(2) Make sure that the strider has been immobilised often enough for the kiter to build agro incl Curse of Exhausation, Shadow priest blackout and nets. However, we very careful who you entrust with nets as a bad net will end up killing someone.
(3) If people get too close to the kiter's agro then have them switch to naga or elementals.
(4) With 20-seconds to go bring some of the ranged dps from the stairs to nuke the strider. They start from a basis of no threat and can go all out.

Lastly, it was my understanding that salvation does not stack from tranquil air. I may be wrong.