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Lilie
12-05-2007, 07:27 AM
Hey you guys,

Anyone got some thoughts on when/how a guild like mine (a casual guild transitioning to raiding guild and hoping to start Kara with one commited team) should make the transition to a solid DKP system? I've thought about putting it in place from the beginning but am wondering if it might be a bit overkill. I figure with only one team running the drops will probably go to fill the obvious needs. Is this naive thinking? Would it be best to transition to DKP upon reaching 25-man content? If so, how would you actually get it started? Would you start everyone with a common ammount of DKP?

Thanks for your time gang.

Temig
12-05-2007, 08:44 AM
Well, first things first... do you need to use DKP in Karazhan?
My guild did not but, then again, we were also an established raiding guild before BC and had spent a good amount of time raiding together so we knew that people wouldn't be picking up epics just because they could use them and would also understand the idea of fairness (meaning early on that just because every boss decided to drop a tanking piece that I, or any of the other tanks, wouldn't roll on all of them leaving the other(s) with nothing). With a guild just starting to raid this atmosphere is going to be hard to achieve. It sounds very easy at first and your guildmates would probably "agree" to it but often times, especially for those who are raiding for the first time, the sight of all the epic "upgrades" overrides their logical thought process (and this isn't to say that it doesn't still happen to some people after they've been raiding for a while as well). If it were me starting with a fresh group of raiders I would implement a DKP system from the start, if not just to get people used to the idea of how it works as well as to get the officers who will be handling the management of the system some experience doing so.

The next, and possibly biggest, question would be what kind of DKP system you want to implement. There are many out there and they all have their pros and cons and you can even come up with your own. Personally, I have become a big fan of a modified zero-sum DKP system. Zero-sum DKP works by distributing DKP spent on items from a boss evenly amongst the raid members in attendance for the raid. This can be further modified to include bonuses for first kills, DKP awarded for non-kills on learning bosses, on-time bonuses etc. Another suggested option would be to allow members not in the raid to earn DKP as if they were in the raid if they are ready to come in to the raid if needed (outside the entrance ready to go) -- this DKP should NOT be awarded if they are called on and are not ready to come in when called upon (they should whisper an officer if they need to go AFK for a couple of minutes so that it's know) or if they are noted as being not outside of the instance. Prices for items can either be set up front or be bid on however set prices make startup easier in my opinion. While people are tied at 0 DKP items are rolled on by those interested in paying the item's cost.

Take a loot around though, there are many options available and you're sure to find something that works for you :)

Lilie
12-05-2007, 09:07 AM
Gotcha Temig. Do you have a good link to a more detailed description of zero sum? I've read Cider's thread on the topic in the guild forums, but I think I need a little more back info to fully understand it. I'll start googling around, though, and puruse (Lord have mercy on my soul...) the WoW forums. Thanks for the help.

Andenthal
12-06-2007, 06:18 PM
WoWwiki is a great resource for all WoW related topics
Here is their Zero Sum DKP synopsis:

Zero-sum DKP - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Zero-sum_DKP)

Ceravantes
12-06-2007, 06:52 PM
I never saw the appeal of a zero sum system, in order to keep it balanced and reward progression content you get into something that is just to complicated. Complicated systems are to easy to get wrong.

Personally, especially with a newer guild starting out, I would stick with some sort of Silent bid system. I won't go to far into detail, but you can check this out (http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/guild-general/33011-raid-loot-systems-open-discussion.html) to see an overveiw of a few different ways of going about loot.

Throng
12-07-2007, 04:31 AM
I would definitely get something in place ASAP, otherwise you're almost guaranteed drama...

I was very keen to try Suicide Kings (http://www.wowwiki.com/Suicide_Kings) back in my old guild (when I used to have some say in such matters ;) ) - I think it's a very elegant solution to the problem, and is a doddle to set up and maintain (especially compared to some of the other systems!).

Anyone use it for reals?