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View Full Version : Does mace and sword expertise really stack?(human)



Horgar
12-01-2007, 04:54 PM
I read on this forum where someone said they were getting 10 expertise by wielding a mace and sword. This seems like a bug to me if it's true (or simply a display bug, we know how accurate that char sheet has historically been, especially when stacking buffs).

Arrivan
12-01-2007, 05:07 PM
I believe that was me that said that. I've got a picture of my character screen showing it.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o84/trojan89_2006/expertise.jpg
Main hand is Dragonmaw, OH is King's Defender (I don't use that as my normal OH)

However, I haven't tested whether it gives the full expertise bonus. As for whether it is a bug, I guessed that it was, but it may be intended. If so, I'm even more annoyed for not taking the S2 OH sword instead of the mace, despite the fact I'm now looking to replace it.

Horgar
12-03-2007, 10:15 PM
It would be sort of neat if it did ... I just have a sneaking suspicion that it's really just a display bug with char sheet. When it first got put in it would give double the avoidance from gear than you should have gotten (i.e. normally +x def would give +.5% to each the char sheet was showing a full +1%).

Horgar
12-15-2007, 09:49 PM
Well I started some testing on this. My initial conclusions are that 200-300 swings isn't enough for the statistics to level out =P. I did 5 mobs (~200 swings) and then 5 more for almost 300 swings with the same exact gear and weapons and the dodge streaks put me at +3% dodge on the 2nd log.

So when i have more time I guess I gota just kill like 20 of these gd things for at least 1000+ swings to see if it levels out a bit more.

Current data:

Wearing tank gear and swapping weapons. 5 lvl 71 apexis flayers. All white hits.... did

5 then it wasnt enough so did more and tagged the logs together. Wreaks havoc on dps

scores but the % miss/hit/parry/dodge should be ok.

Control: 2 axes
15 hit rating
2 axes, no expertise:

hit 90 43.48%
crit 22 10.63%
glanc 25 12.08%
miss 52 25.12%
parry 8 3.86%
dodge 10 4.83%
207 100.00%

Did 5 more mobs with above settings and tagged it onto the other log... dodge avergae

jumped a bunch

Horgar - WWS (http://wowwebstats.com/44elsvt5fugi3?a=0)

hit 195 40.12%
crit 68 13.99%
glanc 58 11.93%
miss 119 24.49%
parry 16 3.29%
dodge 30 6.17%
486 100.00%




2 swords
hit 35
exp 5

Horgar - WWS (http://wowwebstats.com/gipmoryikllfc?a=1)

2 swords - 35 hit - 5 expertise
hit 120 44.12%
crit 40 14.71%
glanc 45 16.54%
miss 48 17.65%
parry 10 3.68%
dodge 9 3.31%
272 100.00%

Skitter
12-16-2007, 03:18 AM
I really think 5 mobs, or even 10 mobs, just isn't enough to get a solid idea. Your parries actually increased when you went to the 2 sword setup, over the 2 axe setup.

If you had a log with constant variables and several hundred attacks, that would be a better basis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main theory that one sword and one mace (for humans) will yield 10 expertise, or is it supposed to work for two of the same?

Arrivan
12-16-2007, 05:37 AM
When wielding my two maces, I only recieve a single expertise bonus (ie, +5). The theory is that using a mace and a sword gives two expertise bonuses, for a total of +10 expertise before any other talents and gear. Unfortunately I am not in the position of owning an off hand sword that I'd be willing to use in a raid setting, otherwise I'd use one and compare the WWS to that of a raid where I used both maces.

Horgar
12-16-2007, 11:52 AM
No the number of hits I'm giong to have to make is probably going to approach the 10s of thousands before it really evens out. I'm using 2 axes vs 2 swords as a control. Before we can analyze what 1 axe and 1 swords gives or 1 mace & 1 sword we have to see how many shots it takes for the true dodge rates to surface.... statistical math is not an exact science, though, and the fact that we're looking for specific numbers will probably just end up skewing the results. Here's my current collected data. I'm keeping variables constant - always in my tank gear with same weapons and I only attack lvl 71 apexis flayers.

Control: 2 axes
15 hit rating
2 axes, no expertise:
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/mjmw6uadszlvw)
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/6zti1t234luks)
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/jm1tbnh2lkice)


hit 504 41.58%
crit 165 13.61%
glanc 141 11.63%
miss 284 23.43%
parry 57 4.70%
dodge 61 5.03%
Totals 1212 100.00%


2 swords
hit 35
exp 5

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/gipmoryikllfc)
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/jvdnzcreygb6q)


hit 476 44.36%
crit 138 12.86%
glanc 146 13.61%
miss 223 20.78%
parry 37 3.45%
dodge 53 4.94%
Totals 1073 100.00%

Taelas
12-16-2007, 01:25 PM
This is simply not solid enough to base anything off of.

Horgar
12-16-2007, 05:46 PM
the number of hits I'm giong to have to make is probably going to approach the 10s of thousands before it really evens out.

Just for emphasis. I'm not basing anything off the current data. This is sharing of information. I'll keep updating it as I add more. Until the control figures show correct values I can't move on to testing sword+mace or sword+axe.