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Ukyo
12-01-2007, 01:32 AM
Hi, i was looking around and couldn't find a conversion for Resilience to Defense and viceversa. Anyone knows how much resilience is equal to 1 point of defense? (estimates work too :P)

Taelas
12-01-2007, 02:36 AM
39.4 Resilience rating = 1% crit reduction.

2.366 Defense rating = 1 Defense = 0.04% crit reduction. Thus,

59.15 Defense rating = 25 Defense = 1% crit reduction = 39.4 Resilience rating.

Ukyo
12-01-2007, 11:18 AM
awesome, thanks a lot =D

Gehn
12-01-2007, 05:56 PM
As an add-on question...

A guildie asked me why I didnt do arena for upgrades due to the (sometimes) higher stamina + resilience on the items at the ease of doing BGs.

My reply was that resilience (in my mind) does not replace defense, it only supplements it due to the avoidance characteristics of defense.

But, are there tanks that have done Kara/Heroics w/ only the PVP rewards? Am I wrong in my assessment of the two stats?

Teadrinker
12-01-2007, 06:15 PM
beyond crit immune resillience does practically nothing, its easy to get crit immune with either, but defense will also give you added dodge/parry/block and comes on most tanking pieces anyway, the main time to get resillience gear as a tank is if you are trying to gear for resistances and cant afford crit immune from defense into the budget.

Cowofdoom
12-03-2007, 03:08 PM
I made a spreadsheet to help tanks balance resilience and defense, if they are so inclined.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdLMyF1S_uJB38T6ZTiGDUA&hl=en

Horgar
12-03-2007, 10:24 PM
Defense also gives +miss. Part of resilience reduces crit dmg and it also applies to spells. Mobs never crit spells and once you are crit immune the reduction in crit dmg is useless.

PVP gear is good for a DPS tank in situations where the MT might die and they could pick up the mob... high armor, high stam, and resilience gives them decent dps stats and tank stats.

In most cases PvP gear is only good because it's easier to get than it's tier equivilent, though.

Scratchula
12-04-2007, 10:22 AM
I have the S2 shield so I can drop my defense to 473 and remain crit immune. That let's me swap in DPS gear, or prioritize stam/dodge/parry gear rather than +defense. In general you can get higher stam and higher avoidance by stacking these stats over defense.

Taelas
12-04-2007, 10:30 AM
I have the S2 shield so I can drop my defense to 473 and remain crit immune. That let's me swap in DPS gear, or prioritize stam/dodge/parry gear rather than +defense. In general you can get higher stam and higher avoidance by stacking these stats over defense.

No. You cannot stack higher avoidance by going Resilience + avoidance; it costs a lot more then Defense does, item-point-wise.

39.4 Resilience rating is 39.4 item points. 60 Defense rating is 60 item points, but for those item points, you get 3% avoidance (miss+parry+dodge) and 1% block in addition to the crit reduction. In order to have the same avoidance/block with Resilience (and let's just take Dodge for avoidance, as it's the cheapest one), you need an additional 64.64 item points.

Higher stam, yes. Higher avoidance, no, not ever. (Not unless you're a druid.)

pvrhye
12-12-2007, 09:37 PM
I could see busting out the arms warrior in the raid to tank really DoT heavy fights (not that I can name any). In any case, I have a full tanking set but I looked at it from afar and I was better off putting in a number of my resilience pieces. I take a nasty cut in avoidance, but I'm crit immune and my armor is about 3k higher with a slight boost in HPs. The extra 8% crit or so doesn't hurt either. I figure the cut I take in avoidance is warranted by the increased mitigation and threat.

Fivestones
12-17-2007, 06:25 AM
Interesting stuff anyone else? :)

Scratchula
12-20-2007, 11:02 AM
No. You cannot stack higher avoidance by going Resilience + avoidance; it costs a lot more then Defense does, item-point-wise.

39.4 Resilience rating is 39.4 item points. 60 Defense rating is 60 item points, but for those item points, you get 3% avoidance (miss+parry+dodge) and 1% block in addition to the crit reduction. In order to have the same avoidance/block with Resilience (and let's just take Dodge for avoidance, as it's the cheapest one), you need an additional 64.64 item points.

Higher stam, yes. Higher avoidance, no, not ever. (Not unless you're a druid.)

I'm trying to understand... If defense gives better avoidance than stacking parry or dodge, why don't we see tanks with huge amounts of +defense?

Melange
12-20-2007, 11:06 AM
Dodge > Defense > Parry.
The assumption was that you were crittable, and so would need to make that up with resil.

Taelas
12-20-2007, 11:15 AM
I'm trying to understand... If defense gives better avoidance than stacking parry or dodge, why don't we see tanks with huge amounts of +defense?

Dodge gives slightly better avoidance than Defense.

You get 0.053% Dodge per Dodge rating. You get 0.050% avoidance per Defense rating (as well as 0.0169% block).

So for the purposes of passive uncrushable (or Holy Shield-uncrushable), it goes Defense > Dodge > Parry. For the purposes of pure avoidance, Dodge > Defense > Parry.

Surrok
12-20-2007, 01:58 PM
Arena/BG gear can be a great substitute for some pieces where you have having terrible luck with drops. My guild has been farming Kara since Late April/Early May and I still haven't seen the chest off of Nightbane or the belt off of Moroes (Bought the badge belt recently) so the extra armor, resilience, and stamina were worth the drop in defense thanks to having on-the-ball healers. It gave a steady stream of incoming damage for them to pay attention to, good rage generation, and good threat. When given the option go for the defensive gear but plugging holes with arena/BG gear is also viable.

thugthedum
12-21-2007, 09:50 AM
I'm trying to understand... If defense gives better avoidance than stacking parry or dodge, why don't we see tanks with huge amounts of +defense?

Good tanks gear for each fight a little bit differently - every fight is unique; but I find that in 90% of fights I'm balancing threat and stamina or threat and some resistance with a baseline of avoidance. Too much avoidance means you aren't taking enough damage to get rage, which means you might start skipping shield blocks and put yourself in jeopardy of taking a crush just to get rage - and it's not worth it.

I wear my S2 shield right now and stack stamina to 16k, then put on as much threat and avoidance as possible for my baseline gear. Because I have the 31 res, I can let my defense dip to 489 and not worry one bit - which is nice. But I don't fool myself in to thinking res>def - it's not. Defense is a fantastic avoidance stat, much better than resilience. It's just that I don't want too much avoidance in most fights - just a baseline uncrittable & uncrushable. This answers your question directly: you wont find too many tanks on the armory logged out in heavy defense gear because most fights don't warrant lots of avoidance. But that doesn't mean they don't have a bunch of high defense items in their bags for the right fight.

Now, dw bosses (Moroes, Prince, others) do warrant high avoidance - in these cases I'll stack defense and dodge items all night long.

In the end, resilience is nearly useless to tanks; but those of us with the S2 shield or shoulders or maybe the S3 chest in our tanking gear get a little bit more room to play with in getting to uncrittable. Resilience is never a desirable stat in itself.

pvrhye
12-21-2007, 10:21 PM
If they ever release a fight with almost no physical hits and brutal DoT damage I think you'll see some resilience sets tanking.

Cavlon
12-22-2007, 12:06 AM
Can someone address this from A druid tanks point of view, Defense gives neither block or parry to a druid, and all of the druid pvp gear has a decent amount of agility which gives dodge.

would it be viable to be a druid tank with zero defense, as long as the resiliance was high enough to be crit immune?

Ceravantes
12-22-2007, 03:40 AM
Can someone address this from A druid tanks point of view, Defense gives neither block or parry to a druid, and all of the druid pvp gear has a decent amount of agility which gives dodge.

would it be viable to be a druid tank with zero defense, as long as the resiliance was high enough to be crit immune?

It's Viable for anyone, not optimal. This is less true for druids.

Melange
12-22-2007, 10:56 PM
Can someone address this from A druid tanks point of view, Defense gives neither block or parry to a druid, and all of the druid pvp gear has a decent amount of agility which gives dodge.

would it be viable to be a druid tank with zero defense, as long as the resiliance was high enough to be crit immune?
You will pretty much always have 19 defense, because of Violet Signet of the Great Protector being so damn good.

In the case of a resist fight, (Hydross only) then it becomes likely that you have 0 Defense, but can get crit immunity through resilience. S3 gear will be better than anything else, non-resist, you would be wearing the first time your fight Hydross. When I did hydross, I took crits, but you can probably get immunity fairly easily now.

I think I might have enough resilience on me for crit immunity in my cat gear.