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tripp6sic6
11-30-2007, 07:21 PM
I'm a little confused about Shade of Aran.

I'm in a guild just getting ready to start Kara. No one in the guild has any gear from inside. Is it possible to stay in my tanking spec/gear and DPS for the fight (since he has no threat table) or will I need to change my gear and/or spec? If I need to gather DPS gear, what stats should I look for in it?

Irenius
11-30-2007, 11:56 PM
For Aran all I really do is swap to my DPS gear. When adds spawn I'll pop on my sword and board and taunt an elemental while hitting spell reflect. You don't really need your defense stats at all for that fight.

tripp6sic6
12-01-2007, 04:05 PM
Let me rephrase my questions.

Will my lack of DPS in my spec kill a new raid group trying to take down Shade of Aran for the first time?

Is it possible for me to respec before the fight?

If I can't/shouldn't, what type of DPS gear should I get to get the most DPS out of a protection spec with SS and Dev?

Teadrinker
12-01-2007, 05:19 PM
its not worth respeccing but you should pick up some slow one handed weapons and devestate/whirlwind as much as possible, try to pick up some dps gear if possible. every little dps helps on aran as its a dps race (for starting raids atleast)

Ceravantes
12-01-2007, 05:22 PM
When we were first killing Shade, I could easily be 1st or second on the cahrts for that fight just dev/ww spamming.

Bulldozzer
12-01-2007, 07:49 PM
for the first 2-3 kills we had our MT flip out for a dps/interrupt class. druids just flip to kitty form

Mordigen
12-02-2007, 08:12 AM
As the main tank, I would not respec just for this fight. I usually just switch out to my dps gear as stated above and get in as many interrupts as I can to be useful. If you can get to Shade of Aran without gear from Kara you are doing pretty well anyways and the dps shouldn't be a problem.

Kintaran
12-03-2007, 02:11 AM
I wear my Fury gear and just slam him in the face with slow Devastates and Whirlwinds. That should really work just fine. Keep Pummelling and don't forget to Execute when he's in range, and that's all you need to worry about as a warrior. Since you're a melee class with an interrupt, add control shouldn't be high on your priority list, and failing to control adds is one of the big ways you'll wipe. The other one is people not avoiding his AOEs and there's absolutely nothing you can do about them. This fight doesn't really depend on the melee doing something special.

But yes, get Fury-ish gear. You can skip the crit emphasis. Just get solid hit rating, attack power, and two decent onehanders. If your tanking weapon is high enough DPS, it makes a fine offhand.

Razmo
12-03-2007, 02:20 AM
I stay in prot gear. Shield slam and dev does nice dmg also. and ofc we he goes to 20% berserker ftw. We didn't use locks on our last run. The ot and me (mt) picked up the elementals (both 2) so prot gear helped out there. Anyway if you just go for full dmg on shade and don't mind the blasts he does to much he's easy to keep his mana above his HP. Full nuke all and tanks in prot gear for elementals if you have locks. Let them fear and ban them. For dps I would still go in prot but if you like dps gear take alot of str gems and str gear for AP.

tripp6sic6
12-03-2007, 09:06 PM
As the main tank, I would not respec just for this fight. I usually just switch out to my dps gear as stated above and get in as many interrupts as I can to be useful. If you can get to Shade of Aran without gear from Kara you are doing pretty well anyways and the dps shouldn't be a problem.

I realize that we probably won't make it that far, but I just wanted to be prepared as I can be. :) I'm already gathering a fury set for instance runs when I want to do something different, so I'll just bring them to the Kara run for Shade. Thanks for all the help everyone.

Thalruin
12-03-2007, 10:32 PM
Aran does in fact have a threat component. He randomly casts spells. When he can't he will walk over and smack the highest person on his threat table. Usually this happens by interrupting too well. You want to heal through his arcane missles, not interrupting. However, for our first Aran kills, I was DW devastating in zerker stance and pummeling when I could. Because of the need for ranged dps to move a lot in this fight, even as prot you will do pretty high damage comparatively. Obviously a fury warrior will do better and probably stay higher in threat, but with the way the fight goes, if Aran does tend to whack people, it will probably be melee. Hopefully if you have a rogue, he's still vanishing at opportune times. Which means it will hopefully be a warrior or kitty than can shift to bear if his melee attacks happen more frequently than they should. I'm not saying gimp your dps so they stay behind you on threat. I'm just pointing out that if Aran tends to move around the room a lot during your fights, it's because he's trying to melee highest threat. Clothies can die pretty quick if he is successful at an inopportune time.

Brucimus
12-04-2007, 09:05 AM
As a prot Warrior this is a place you can possibly out damage the DPSer's ..have fun with it!

Scratchula
12-04-2007, 09:16 AM
I usually park my warlock outside Kara and switch to him for Shade. If you don't have a dps alt, just put on dps gear and dual wield.

madocks
12-09-2007, 08:33 AM
I use a big fat 2h epix weapon, in dps kit im around 2.2k attack power buffed - i still do poopy damage but its nice to pretend that Im a dps spec for a few minutes :)

If your just starting aran, i would focus on Moroes maiden, opera and curator before thinking too hard about aran. In my previous guild we wiped for a lot of nights on aran before we nailed the guy.

Aran helps to have some one on teamspeak calling out the movements, someone saying in TS to move to walls will improve the fight a huge amount (Especially on flame wreath)

dude
12-09-2007, 09:30 AM
Aran does in fact have a threat component. He randomly casts spells. When he can't he will walk over and smack the highest person on his threat table. Usually this happens by interrupting too well. You want to heal through his arcane missles, not interrupting. However, for our first Aran kills, I was DW devastating in zerker stance and pummeling when I could. Because of the need for ranged dps to move a lot in this fight, even as prot you will do pretty high damage comparatively. Obviously a fury warrior will do better and probably stay higher in threat, but with the way the fight goes, if Aran does tend to whack people, it will probably be melee. Hopefully if you have a rogue, he's still vanishing at opportune times. Which means it will hopefully be a warrior or kitty than can shift to bear if his melee attacks happen more frequently than they should. I'm not saying gimp your dps so they stay behind you on threat. I'm just pointing out that if Aran tends to move around the room a lot during your fights, it's because he's trying to melee highest threat. Clothies can die pretty quick if he is successful at an inopportune time.

I am sorry. But I do not seem to believe this.

If you lock out the spell schools, he will go melee. But the attack should still be on the person he would have cast on.

Plus your post just said "Melee dps has highest threat" then ends with "clothies can die pretty quick if he is successful at an inopportune time."

So you go against what you said? Unless you mean your rogues are wearing dreadmist?

Shade, to my experience, does not have a threat list. The only thing that has a threatlist in that fight are the elementals.

If I am wrong, please prove me wrong. SS your omen and who shade attacks. That would mean he should be tanked on the off-chance of all spell schools being locked.

And please...before any flame for my gear or whatevers remember one thing--I am an alt, but I give you a firm certainty that I have been around a bit ;)

Delicatesse
12-10-2007, 01:45 AM
I'm usually #2 on Aran, only topped by rogues. On our latest kill I was #1 with ~940 DPS. I use a pretty bad dw fury gear, only good pieces are the weapons: 2x Decapitators :) I still have plenty of greens.
My deva and HS costs 9 rage, I guess that helps. I spam them, interrupt spells and pop recklessness at 20%. No need to swap out a MT, we never did. Elementals are handled by ranged only, interrupters stay on the boss 24/7

Taelas
12-10-2007, 03:15 AM
Plus your post just said "Melee dps has highest threat" then ends with "clothies can die pretty quick if he is successful at an inopportune time."

I believe he's pointing out that Aran will try to melee the highest person on the threat list, and if that person is a clothie, they can die pretty quick.

dude
12-10-2007, 09:25 PM
But also pointed out that melee dps was always the highest. Can't have both. But that is nitpicking on my part.

I am still not convinced that Shade will aggro on any threat list other than random.

Kintaran
12-11-2007, 02:43 AM
Melee DPS being higher than ranged DPS does not preclude a ranged character being higher on threat. Not all classes reduce threat alike. A fire mage tossing down 700 DPS with his .9 threat modifier will generate more absolute threat than the Fury Warrior doing 850 with his .7 modifier, and be higher on the list.

From all observations, Aran does have a standard threat table which is simply irrelevant unless a raid manages to lock out all three schools simultaneously. Interrupt durations are short enough in comparison to their cooldowns that this is pretty unlikely for most raid compositions.

Shortypop
12-11-2007, 02:58 AM
I'd be tempted to say that his spells aren't randomly targeted.

For the last four runs (which is all I have wws for) the person who did the most damage to him got the most damage done to him by aran (this is ignoring damage from & to water elementals etc).

The four were a hunter once, a dps warrior once and me (prot warrior in zerker and fury gear) twice. Last time I took over twice the damage of the next person on the list - the vast vast majority was magic damage as we don't lock out arcane missiles except if the person being targetted is going to die.

Mordigen
12-11-2007, 06:53 AM
I am still willing to say that the overall pattern that I have witnessed from him in all the fights I have had with him are random. There are times where he would target one person more than another, but sometimes that is a healer, sometimes a rogue, sometimes a mage. There might be a small threat factor, but there is no way to predict that, or to avoid it without everyone holding back but one person. The bottom line is he is going to target pretty much everyone in the raid at one point or another, and you might as well just go all out dps if you can get him to spawn the elementals before he has to drink so they are dead at the polymorph, or hold back at a little above 40% till he is done sheeping and blasting.

dude
12-11-2007, 09:48 AM
Although Most Damage Done to Most Damage taken is interesting, a bit of randomness might be there too. Resists and such by the other players. Even just having the pyro miss a player will skewer that data.

Unless Omen is really bugging out on me (which very well could be). I ran it during this last Shade fight (okay so it is always on, but this time I payed attention). I also was a bit devilish and locked arcane out (oops) to see him melee.

#1 Aggro? DPS War
Melee Target? Priest running from a blizzard.

I could experiment more on this with different threat meters running, but eventually I will have to tell my guild they are just ginny pigs :D

As for getting him down, I agree with Mordigen. Even if there is threat list for melee...

The point of the fight is not to lock out all 3 spell schools or you will have to chase the guy..usually in a place you don't want to be (ie. Flamewreath or blizzard) which will gimp your dps (read as melee) not to mention the melee interrupts for the spell schools he will pump off after he gets his melee shot in.

DPS or Mana Race it is. Good groups won't see the pyro blast. If you dont' have the DPS for that, then control when he polys.

Thalruin
12-11-2007, 10:32 AM
Shade does in fact have a threat list and will target the highest threat for melee if he can't cast spells. I didn't say anything about spellcasts not being random. My statement about clothies dying pretty quickly if they get hit isn't mutually exclusive with my statement about melee being more than likely higher threat.


Solarian works a lot like Shade of Aran also. She melees highest threat when not casting. Only I think now she's tauntable.


I'm guessing a few of you are dismissing what I say out of hand because you don't believe I have any real experience. Maybe I should make a cute little sig or something.

Brucimus
12-11-2007, 10:48 AM
I thought his aggro was based on the who had the lowest health

dude
12-17-2007, 09:06 AM
Thalruin. Don't get all hurt. As you can read from my title, I am an alt. I just do not believe in the threat list. I tried to lock and it didn't go to #1 threat. No sense to flame and get hurt.

Bruimus--thankfully no. It is random.

Elanith
12-17-2007, 02:12 PM
From everything i've seen and experience this is how he works

Spells will be randomly cast on the entire raid

If all schools locked out he will melee the person with the highest Threat, frankly tho you never want to cancel his Arcane missles spells anyway. hes already spent the mana for that spell, unlike fireball and frostbolt, so just let the old geezer keep channeling that arcane spell, its nothing your healers shouldnt be able to heal through.

Here is the problem tho, he is a "smart" caster. if someone is low on hp, he will target that person with his spells exclusively till either they are dead or the party member is no longer low on HP. so make sure your healers get people who are low on hp back up, otherwise Aran will most likely burn that person down.

-Larou

Horgar
12-17-2007, 10:05 PM
If you want to maximize your chance to win swapping MT for a lock is not a bad idea. If you don't have that or you don't want to leave I wouldn't say respec, though. We've done it with 2 prot wars before although I have a full fury set.

If you don't have a good DW/fury type set just stick on your best ap/block value gear and keep your shield out and pound SS and Devastate. (bad fury gear dw'ing is worse dps than 1h/shield in bad dps gear in my experience)