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Nobody
11-21-2007, 08:35 PM
My raid group pretty recently reached Fathom-Lord Karathress, and we've proceded to spend our last two and a half nights of SSC progression getting owned by windfury/spitfire/frostshock/whatever other evil things the shaman does to our tanks.

We run three "main tank" types, and there's been some debate as to which is the best choice, or if indeed it's the fault of our tanks or healers/DPS that we keep losing the shaman tank. The raid is blessed with one each of protadin, prot warrior and bear druid, so we've got some options. I'm just wondering which one is best in this situation.

Tank armories: Paladin (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Steamwheedle+Cartel&n=Charlot), Warrior (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Steamwheedle+Cartel&n=Prodigey), Druid (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Steamwheedle+Cartel&n=Valewalker).

Ceravantes
11-21-2007, 09:26 PM
Bear, he is lvl 72 so the big set back of a bear (crushing blows) is irrelevant, the armor/hop they have is perfect for it.

Driggan
11-21-2007, 11:42 PM
I'd say, as long as you are able to interrupt the priest without a warrior tank on it, go with a warrior on Tidalvess. There's alot of good argument for a bear, and my guild uses a bear on Tidalvess, but I personally believe that a warrior would do it better. For reference, the kill order for us is: Hunter, Shaman, Priest, Boss.

Reasons are as follows:

1. Thunderclap, while everyone else is killing the first mob, there will generally be no other warrior to lay down thunderclap. If talented right, this is a 20% speed decrease on a mob which swings very fast. Or rather, a 20% damage debuff.

2. Commanding shout, same as above since a warrior will not be there to buff a druid / paladin. The extra 1080 health will make the difference between life and death.

3. Block: Lots of light attacks are generally blocked better than dodged with a decent block value. This usually comes with the risk of being Crushed, like Moroes, but this mob isn't high enough level to crush and as such helps all three tanking classes.

4. Magic mitigation, something a druid has none of and a paladin less than a warrior. It seems to me that a good part of the damage going on in the fight against Tidalvess is magic, and thus can be reduced 16% by warriors, including that frost shock.

5. Magic reflect? I'm not completely sure about this one, but I've heard you can put down a totem of grounding to absorb the frost shock that puts alot of burst damage on the tank. If this is true, you can likely magic reflect the frost shock if there is no grounding totem. While you likely can't see it coming, a warrior can have magic reflect up 50% of the time (5 second duration on a 10 second cooldown in a fight where rage should be plentiful). Otherwise you could time it.

For these reasons I believe we are better equipped than bears for tanking the shaman, though most of this is in fact theorycraft as I have never tanked the shaman, a bear does for our guild. The bear, however, often gets spike damaged and killed.

If your guild lets you, try it out, and post the results here.

Atomsk
11-22-2007, 07:16 AM
I tanked Tidalves last time. Our OTs couldn't survive on him, yet I could. I was rocking 30% dodge with close to 20k life, so I gave our healers a HUGE buffer.

Mesh
11-22-2007, 07:19 AM
We used a feral. Drop a grounding totem for the frostshock and he won't drop unless your healers aren't on the ball. His high HP pool and his armor mitigation is enough to soak any windfury procs. The debuffing can be done by the warrior tanking the hunter (we tanked them very closely together).

Atomsk
11-22-2007, 07:26 AM
the problem with grounding totem for us was that the spitefire totem ate a charge of it.

Oda
11-23-2007, 09:55 AM
Grounding Totem is major win. :)

I think any class can tank it well, with different strengths/weaknesses. After 2.3, I think a Paladin could tank it quite well, also.

Easiest way we found to do that fight was to kill Tidalvess first, and put four healers on the Tidalvess tank (leaving one for the Karathress tank, two for the Hunter tank, where we use a Paladin for his ability to grab the pet, and a resto Shaman for the Priest tank). We also have the luxury of several well-geared tanks, however.

Nobody
11-24-2007, 02:06 PM
Thanks for the replies. Didn't get a chance to try anything new since a bunch of the raid was out for thanksgiving this last week.

I hadn't remembered that he is 72, so that does sort of make a strong argument for the bear tanking if we can use our grounding totems correctly.

We tend to tank hunter and shaman close together, so as long as a warrior is on the hunter commanding shout and thunderclap should still be up on the shaman.(Alternatively if we manage enough tanks that I'm there as DPS I can handle de/buffing duties for shaman and tank.)

Satrina
11-24-2007, 03:37 PM
We use a warrior or a bear, doesn't much matter which.

BoomBeef
11-25-2007, 01:57 PM
I think your highest HP tank should be on the Tidalvess, 2nd highest on FLK. Doesn't matter what type. For us I end up tanking him and I do use last stand, my chest heal, eat seed, health stones, pots, keep TC up, Demo up ...everything. We didn't have good luck with the grounding totem so we do without it. We use 3 healers on me, and one out of range of Spitfire totem on them so they can concentrate on me and ignore Spitfire damage to themselves.

Our kill order is also Hunter, Pet, Shaman, Priest and then FLK. Our Fury warrior with some Kara tanking gear & shield has tanked the priest. We leave a rogue with him and a solo healer keeps both of them up fine until the raid makes it to the Priest. Pretty much anyone with a shield could tank the Priest, but use your MT to tank Tidalvess until you get stronger.

Toniblade
11-28-2007, 06:02 PM
If we hit this fight with 3 prot warriors, I'm on the shaman. If only 2, I'm on the priest and we put a bear on the shaman. Someone needs to interrupt heals on that priest.

We burn the shaman down first, have, from memory, 3 healers just to keep me/feral standing. I used to use iron shield potions to help with this fight (potions last 2 minutes, if killing shaman first, shaman had better be down in not much more than 2 minutes or you'll have a lot of trouble beating the enrage timer), but with current gearing levels, I'm finding that I can survive this fight.

There seems to be a trend for some adds that hit harder than the accompanying boss - we are currently learning Kael, and the fearing advisor puts out far more melee dps than Kael, it's just that Kael has some nasty spells. (Kael's individual hits are a little bigger, but with a much lower speed).