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Arrowson
11-16-2007, 10:36 AM
I was messin arond with the new Devistate last night in my fury gear. Lemme just say now, it rules. I was wandering between 400 and 600 DPS in some kara/heroic lvl gear fully speced prot. It was buetiful and it makes us MUCH more viable DPS wise. Of corse we have some major drawbacks with our massive amounts of extra aggro and what have you but im really happy with this. Have you all experianced the same thing?

Esillymidget
11-16-2007, 12:04 PM
Definetely noticed a big improvement, i'm loving all the changes we got.

Korintar
11-16-2007, 01:39 PM
I noticed that things die a lot faster now, even when I'm in my prot gear. It's a substantial buff for soloing, that's for sure.

Baceramus
11-16-2007, 03:42 PM
Lol, prot dps is insane when dual wielding now. Proof, in fury gear, on Shade of Aran.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/baceramus/WoWScrnShot_111507_001113.jpg?t=1195118053

And yeah, I'm dead because all of our healers went down and I missed out on executing the last 3%. I could have done better if I had stayed up! :(

Calamity
11-16-2007, 10:36 PM
I did some dual wield DPs'ing, and actually had trouble not pulling aggro, and my DPS gear is somewhat lacking.

thugthedum
11-17-2007, 12:14 PM
oh yeah. last night in a key run for a guildie in durnholde? I just went all out with two slow weapons whirlwinding, cleaving and devastating through all the trash. At the end of the instance, I was number one on the dps meter at 43%. The rogue, number two, was 30%.

Whirlwind and devastate ftw. But I could not stay below the tank for the life of me. The threat, really, is a nerf - this is only any good where we are not threat capped. The extra threat from devastate/sunder are still there in berzerker stance, even if they are lower.

Taelas
11-17-2007, 05:53 PM
As long as the tank is a warrior who applies Sunder Armor, you won't get the Sunder threat once it's been stacked to 5. You'll still get additional threat from Devastate, though.

thugthedum
11-17-2007, 09:55 PM
anyone actually doing raid dps (Aran does not count) with protection build?

I'd say it's strangely possible, though you have no threat reducers.

Baceramus
11-18-2007, 02:14 PM
Kinda works against the idea of dps if you are a prot build doesn't it? Some of the best ability use is from either having no threat cap or being the main target(tank). The changes make grinding solo much easier if you go around dual wielding in fury gear.

Arrowson
11-19-2007, 10:08 AM
yea our excess threat pretty much rules us out for raid DPS, but its still a nice side attraction that we can now do more damg then a gnat

Bayho
11-19-2007, 12:15 PM
Eh, we have always been able to top the charts of Shade as prot warriors by spamming devastate, so I do not think that is proof. Shade is simply a cloth mob that anyone can hit and 9-rage devastates with no cooldown rock him. But, it is a ton easier to solo now, both in prot and dps gear, especially with the added bonus of Whirlwind changes.

Bonerot
11-19-2007, 01:24 PM
Forgive me my lack of dps knowledge, I've only ever been good at tanking.

I just started seeing the using devastate for dps on shade when I normally can only hit maybe 250ish dps using mostly HS. Granted my dps gear is not great. A mix of blues and some greens, the helm & ring from the hhm.

So I should be in dps gear and just spam devastate?

Any other abilities and which stance should I be in preferably?

If I have to interrupt I should be in zerker stance and I have no tactical mastery so should I just stay in zerk for that fight?

Bayho
11-19-2007, 01:50 PM
For the Shade, basically you have the right idea. You should be zerker stance, because you need interrupt him, probably either frost or fire spells, depending on how your strategy is setup, and the fastest interrupt we have is Pummel.

Since there is no real aggro table to worry about for this fight, you can put on the DPS gear and go all out on him. In the mean time, while you are tanking in kara, pick up every dps item you can that no one else needs. You will get dps gear drops faster, in almost all cases, than tank gear.

You will want to keep up battle shout and sunders (easy now with devastate changes), and keep interrupting. You should be able to dual wield and have enough rage to constantly spam devastate, and use whirlwind when it is up.

Depending on how the raid handles elementals when they spawn, you can adjust your gear. You do not want to fall too low on hitpoints, but you should be good if you have 9k minimum. You really do not need to worry about changing stances in this fight, which is a good thing because so much else is going on.

Beertap
11-19-2007, 02:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/BeeRKeG/WoWScrnShot_111807_195224.jpg?t=1195478972

1032 DPS as a Protection Warrior.
No consumables of any sort, just trinkets, Recklessness, Bloodlust, totems and LotP.

Nuff said ;)

Roana
11-19-2007, 04:12 PM
So I should be in dps gear and just spam devastate?

Devastate is always preferable to Heroic Strike for DPS, actually. The rage cost of Heroic Strike is horrendous, especially with a slow main hand (which you want for Devastates).

Briefly, use Devastate as your main attack. Use Whirlwind if you're getting more rage than you can dump with Devastate (frequently the case on Shade of Aran). Use Heroic Strike only if you're getting more rage than you can dump with both.

DPS gear is advised. That means not just items that have DPS stats on them, but also appropriate weapons. Enchant your gear. Use appropriate consumables and buffs if you really need to be competitive in DPS. Fury warriors and rogues don't just top DPS charts because of their class and spec, but also because they give their DPS gear the same attention we give our tank gear. Think about how much stamina you'd lose without enchants -- now translate that experience to DPS gear and attack power/hit/crit rate.


If I have to interrupt I should be in zerker stance and I have no tactical mastery so should I just stay in zerk for that fight?

For Shade of Aran? Basically, yes. You still want to have enough health to not be a healing liability and to survive after the Pyroblast. I switch to defensive for picking up elementals, though (they do have a normal aggro table).

Crimsonstorm
11-19-2007, 05:09 PM
When we were doing Kara I pretty much got #1 dps on shade in almost every attempt, occasionally being beaten by a rogue.

DPS (Fury) gear, berserker stance and spam devastate. Use whirlwind when its up, and if you get a ton of rage use heroic strike (like if he arcane missiles you)

Horgar
11-19-2007, 06:09 PM
I did Gruul in my dps gear as 8/5/48. I was tickling the threat but I couldn't quite hit the threat cap while in zerker stance. On fights where it's just 1 tank hunters usually lay on enough MD to boost tank threat well out of my range.

I didn't top the charts but I did manage to land around middle of the pack (of dpsers, not counting tanks/healers). Given my weapons and gear I was very satisfied. Obviously we'll hit the threat ceiling before a fury build ... and dps won't be quite as good even below the threat ceiling. But the ability to do viable dps is very nice.

I haven't done any number crunching but I am suspecting that if you have mostly STR gear (not AP) vitality and imp 1h might scale better than imp zerker + rampage. I even think maybe devastate scales better than BT since I can hit it 3+ times for the same cost and do about the same damage and then still have time to hit it 2 more times before BT would even be up again.

The tie breaker is Flurry (as always).

thugthedum
11-19-2007, 07:45 PM
yea our excess threat pretty much rules us out for raid DPS, but its still a nice side attraction that we can now do more damg then a gnat

that gnat totally had it coming, yo.


I even think maybe devastate scales better than BT

Totally.

Nilya
11-20-2007, 05:42 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/BeeRKeG/WoWScrnShot_111807_195224.jpg?t=1195478972

1032 DPS as a Protection Warrior.
No consumables of any sort, just trinkets, Recklessness, Bloodlust, totems and LotP.

Nuff said ;)

Nice, you should really give the Rogues some grief. :P

Mesh
11-20-2007, 06:05 AM
We did Kara yesterday for a quick badge run and yeah, Prot DPS is fine on Aran. 20 % total damage done and no1 on the meters. Our rogue who is also our 25 man raid leader was a little bit shocked to be beaten by his main tank :D To be fair, my fury gear isn't shitty and devastating with a dragonstrike produces quite nice numbers.

Kazeyonoma
11-20-2007, 10:25 AM
I was dps'ing as the backup tank on Akil'zon yesterday and my dps rivaled our t5 rogues and I"m wearing mostly merciless gladiator gear with Fool's Bane / Malchazeen combo. Its always nice to see.

Crimsonstorm
11-20-2007, 11:04 AM
We went and downed Zuljin last night, and there were 3 tanks in the group. The druid and I went dps.

I was #2 dps overall :) And it wasnt just due to phase 3, I was #2 before that too. Prot dps ftw, just pretend youre fury.

Urhan
11-20-2007, 12:53 PM
457 dps tanking Void Reaver last night, my old record was 360. (And the 360 was with a lucky threat drop just as he hit 20%, so I was able to execute the rest of the way.) The other prot warrior was at 430, our threat was way out in front of the raid, and we beat our previous best time by over a minute.

Al'ar without a million taunt resists was a lot less ulcer-inducing, too.

I'm liking this patch more and more.

Crimsonstorm
11-20-2007, 01:13 PM
I got 463 dps on VR last week, we got him in 7 mins 4 secs. (Wouldve got under 7 but a few died near the end).

Bonerot
11-22-2007, 05:12 AM
Is there a thread you can point me towards that specify which stats to aim for with dw prot? Focus on str or AP? I'm guessing crit isn't as important since I lack the fury talents that it would proc.

Right now this is what I've got in zerker stance.

1166 ap
135 hit
21.37 crit
5 expertise

Armory has been flakey lately but I'll logout in what I've been using for dps gear. It's pitiful I know I look so much better in my tanking sets :)

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eonar&n=Bonerot)

thugthedum
11-22-2007, 05:39 PM
Is there a thread you can point me towards that specify which stats to aim for with dw prot? Focus on str or AP? I'm guessing crit isn't as important since I lack the fury talents that it would proc.

Right now this is what I've got in zerker stance.

1166 ap
135 hit
21.37 crit
5 expertise

Armory has been flakey lately but I'll logout in what I've been using for dps gear. It's pitiful I know I look so much better in my tanking sets :)

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eonar&n=Bonerot)

not to my knowledge; but my instincts say to get hit to a baseline of 11% or so, then get AP up to 1600 or so, then work on crit. from then on out, you are balancing crit and AP up higher and higher.

uruloki
11-23-2007, 07:23 AM
it is pretty sweet... with kara/t5 crafted/2-3 quest blues (rings and whatnot)/quest rewards i hit the 893 DPS mark on a kazzak kill.... im dying to see how ill do in shade, with his crappy AC <3

Derrick
11-23-2007, 09:52 AM
I think the changes were particularly fitting for the Zul'Aman patch, as different fights require 1 or 2 tanks, while still requiring the raid squeeze out substantial DPS. Bringing 2 prot warriors is not as crippling to the DPS as it was in vanilla Karazhan. I've let a lesser geared tank MT the Eagle since I have much better DPS gear. Both times we've done it, I've been among the DPS leaders and also ended up tanking him after the MT died.

Prot DPS is an absolutely essential skill for any Prot warriors after the MT to justify getting a raid spot.

Atomsk
11-23-2007, 07:10 PM
yea, i can't believe how good prot dps is now. i had the oppurtunity to do it tonight on shade, and my devs were critting for 900 with mallet of the tides. I was amazed ~.~

Chamcham
11-29-2007, 02:02 PM
1st post so hello everyone.

I just wanted to add I was a former feral druid and decided to roll a tank to help out my friends who have mainly been support spec for the better part of 2 years. Anyway I hit 60 and asked around including my current guild about prot and everyone said dont do it this that the other.

I had my buddy whip up a spec "former prot war himself" I tried it out and I am really pleasntly surprised. While I was expecting the worst I come to realize I can pretty much kill endlessly, sure I need to stop every so often and if i get 2 mobs its a bit hairy but for the most part i enjoy the spec.

I just came from a Ramparts grp with a 61 Ret Paladin 62 Rogue and 64 Prot pally I came in 2nd place behind the prot paladin. Although the Stance dancing is a pain in the fingers I am pleased to say I am glad I use this spec.

Props to Prot :)

Grohm
11-30-2007, 07:19 AM
Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/gnwtohmk2elgk?s=845-1082) (anonymous log - Khamsa would be me)
i got to dps rage winterchill yesterday and was pleasantly surprised. my fury gear is a mix of blue dungeon drops/epic crafts and some kara/ssc/tk/bt loot.
weapons used were the decapitator & the brutalizer.