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View Full Version : Trinket Choices for Nalorakk (Bear) - ZA



Kreya
11-15-2007, 07:49 AM
Hey all,

My group ran ZA for the first time last night and we are having issues keeping me up during the bear form phase. Each bear phase I'm having to pop one or two cooldowns because I fall under 20% health at least once, so after the 3rd or 4th transistion all of my oh-shit actions are on cooldown. I believe part of this might be with the healing group (2 priests and resto druid), but I want to make it as easy as possible for them.

I've been tanking in my EH gear, which nets just under 15k hp unbuffed (hair over 17k after the available buffs), but only 16% dodge and parry. The two trinkets equiped at the time: Darkmoon Card: Vengeance and Argussian Compass seemed to be appropriate for the bleed damage, but I'm getting slack from some of the other guild tanks for not using Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch over the Compass.

So what trinkets would you suggest for tanking Nalorakk in his bear form?

Argussian Compass
1.1k damage absorbtion (which does get used up) and +36 sta

Moroe's Lucky Pocket Watch
+15% dodge on 2 swipes and passive +2% dodge

This is the first instance that I've found the compass's ability attractive and my argument for it is that it is reliable and almost removes one tick worth of damage. The advantage over the pocket watch in this situation is with my lowered passive dodge from being in EH gear. There isn't a reliable chance of dodging the swipes even with the Pocket Watch activated, while the damage absorbtion is a sure thing. Am I crazy for thinking this way? I mean, dodging 1 of the 2 swipes saves me 5k damage, but not dodging either helps me not at all. I would agree that statistically, over several fights, the pocket watch would be better... but I don't want to keep wiping waiting for statistics to work in my favor :)

klor
11-15-2007, 08:52 AM
Personally, I don't think either trinket has a greater significance over the other. You sound to be fairly well geared, and am guessing the other tank is too. Sounds to me it is a healing issue to be perfectly honest. If you're having to pop cds every time the bear is on you, i am wondering to myself if perhaps you're switching tanks between phases? Have one tank take troll form, the other tank take the bear form. This keeps you from getting the ?mangle? which increases bleed damage by 150%. We had our OT take the bear form and he is not quite as geared as me, and he did just fine. The silence only happens once or twice where you have all the bleeds on you, so with a resto druid it should not be that difficult to keep you up through it...

So, I think one or two of those are your problem. Either your healers are not doing their job as well as they should be, or you're not switching tanks between the forms to keep the debuff off the tank who is tanking the bear form.

Hope that helps

Kreya
11-15-2007, 09:09 AM
We're rotating our tanks and putting the tank with most hp on the bear. Although, I will admit, once I taunted early (3 or 4 sec mark instead of 1 or 2) and got hit with the debuff before he switched to bear form.

For the most part though, our transitions went pretty smooth.

klor
11-15-2007, 09:11 AM
It honestly sounds like a healing issue then... I really didn't see much problems with this boss... Were they keeping you topped off at all times on the bear? If so, you should have had plenty of hp to stay alive during the 2 second silence... specially if the resto kept his hots up... I really don't know other than that :-/

Gajanana
11-15-2007, 10:47 AM
Same issue here..........

Our transitions for our 2 tanks between troll and bear form are very smooth, no issues there. We have that part down like clockwork.

The problem seems to lie when the healers start yelling out "silenced" one by one, and down I go.

As you can see from my sig I have plenty of health and armor.

We are using 3 healers right now. Maybe we should try adding a 4th?

I'm starting to think maybe this is a healer issue as well, because our OT who is geared similar to me has died a few times on the troll form, which I can't beileve is actually happening.

Any ideas?

Narshe
11-15-2007, 10:49 AM
Hmmm remember that you need to use a tank for bear phase and another for human phase. That's the only thing you have to worry about this fight.
With 15k hp unbuffed health you should survive either phase. If not, then it's healing problem.

klor
11-15-2007, 10:50 AM
Adding more healers is not going to help the problem you're having. It is an AoE silence, not an individual one. Its much like the silence in the Gruul fight. Perhaps have a holy paladin bubble out of it? The best i can offer is a resto druid keeping hots up should be enough to keep the tank alive through the 2 second silence. if not, have a paladin bubble out of it. (not sure if they can or not) but I really don't see how you're getting nuked so hard for that 2 seconds...our OT was not all that geared at all and was able to live through it...so my guess is that it is a healing issue as well.

Gajanana
11-15-2007, 11:01 AM
Are you saying that all the casters/healers/ranged are getting silenced at the same time?

It didn't seem to me that ALL of the healers/casters were getting hit with the silence, but only some of them............

Thanks for any and all input!

klor
11-15-2007, 11:02 AM
They all get silenced at the same time... its an AoE silence from the bears roar. :)

Anansi™
11-15-2007, 12:19 PM
I was using Engineering Trinket(45stam use to turn target into a sheep)/Moroes Lucky Pocket Watch popping pocket watch every other phase and noticed a pretty big differnce in incoming damage. Either way fairly significant healing check to say the least. On our first attempt the tank on the humanoid form went down and I ate a mangle with lacerate and rend up . . . 3~4K ticks of damage are not cool. ><;

Brucimus
11-15-2007, 12:27 PM
We downed him last night on our second attempt

We had my self and a decently geared bear druid tanking ...I dont have anything but Kara/Heroic Gear

I think the Key is to make sure both tanks are together side by side during the entire fight so you split the damage from the Swipe attack he does

I used Pocketwatch and Vengeance card as my trinkets for this fight...but i also have alot more avoidance then the OP and less EH

Kreya
11-15-2007, 01:17 PM
I may try using both the Compass and the Watch next time. It really didn't look like I was getting topped off anyways, as I was never over 75&#37; health at the -8.0 sec to death mark. The extra trinket pop may be what I need to overcome the healing problem :)

klor
11-15-2007, 04:23 PM
trinkets dont solve healing problems...telling healers there is a healing problems solves healing problems

:)

Gajanana
11-15-2007, 04:36 PM
trinkets dont solve healing problems...telling healers there is a healing problems solves healing problems

:)

ROFLMAO - I like that one, alot! :)

Bruizer
11-15-2007, 04:36 PM
Just make sure healers keep you topped off and have HoTs on you in anticipation of silences. Did it last night with a holy pally, holy priest and resto shaman as healers, no problem. Very much like the healers have to do on Gruul actually.

Cairn
11-15-2007, 09:04 PM
Paladin concentration aura + hot , ur tank don't die ...

Delicatesse
11-21-2007, 01:01 AM
In bear form, about 80% of the boss' damage is bleeding, which is only mitigated by defensive stance. So you don't need ANYTHING but a big-big health pool. Clearly the best trinkets for that are darkmoon + engineering or netherwing trinket. Also, the compass or the violet badge is good.
I even have a dps cloak equipped (31 sta and 16 hit) on this boss :)
18K buffed HP is the minimum I recommend to have.

Razmo
11-21-2007, 01:15 AM
My group couldn't get him down because our OT (full kara epic) is slacking in gems and enchants, he sits @ 13k unbuffed. We got boss down to 70%. Butt ot died on troll all the time. I might want to bring a druid next time. But the encounter didn't look to hard.

Simonc
11-21-2007, 03:16 PM
For some reason, my healers couldnt keep our Druid OT up during Bear, so we switched around and had me(warrior) on Bear. I noticed i avoided his melee strikes quite reguarly.
We are only in half kara epics/blue gear so i dont see how people seem to be having so much trouble :p

Also if you use a Druid to OT the troll form, as soon as it changes to Bear have him pop out and put some HOT's on you, doing this managed to keep me up just enough to never really drop below 50% during the silence.

Turkalton-Blackrock Horde

Mordigen
12-03-2007, 10:29 AM
I am in a more casual guild, with members in kara or less gear, not everyone as well equipped. We use a druid tank for troll form and me as a warrior for bear form due to defensive stance mitigating some of the dot. The key is to make sure you get hots on you for the silence and just try to have the healers keep you as close to topped off as they can. We use 3 healers, usually 1 druid, 1 pally, and 1 priest. I might have around 16500 health going into the fight with decent avoidance, and we usually fair well. I can see how the larger the health pool will help during the silence and for the dots though too.

To me it sounds like the healers are not keeping you healed enough so when you go into the silence you are forced to do something to live, and that should not be the case. Try to suggest to your healers in the most polite way you can that they need to keep you closer to full health. The bear phase isn't that long but it is intense healing for that time.

veneretio
12-03-2007, 10:48 AM
trinkets dont solve healing problems...telling healers there is a healing problems solves healing problems

:)
They do if you are wearing the wrong trinkets ;)

My theory is always.

1. Do everything I can
2. Make sure I've done everything I can
3. Ask other people if I've done everything I can
4. Go back to #2 like 5 times.
5. Make recommendations to others.

Nuberino
12-03-2007, 11:17 AM
To me it sounds like the healers are not keeping you healed enough so when you go into the silence you are forced to do something to live, and that should not be the case. Try to suggest to your healers in the most polite way you can that they need to keep you closer to full health. The bear phase isn't that long but it is intense healing for that time. I think this is big. Healers especially coming out of Kara are healing reactively and with massive damage that is incoming, you need to make sure in the bear phase that heals are always on you, over heal will make you win this fight easily.

Tmbrland
12-03-2007, 11:29 AM
Try to time your Pocketwatch so that you use it when the Deafening Roar starts so that during that silence you give yourself the best chance to avoid damage. Also make sure you and the OT are stacking on eachother. I have talked to other guild having problems with this and they dont seem to be stacking their tanks. We setup this fight the same as Halazzi.

Nalorakk = Brutal Swipe: A high damage melee attack that will hit the highest agro - damage will split with another player if that player is stacked on top of the highest agro

Halazzi = Saberlash: A high damage melee attack that will hit the highest agro - damage will split with another player if that player is stacked on top of the highest agro

Other then that yeah, make sure those healers are getting HOTs on you along with that all healers should be focusing on the tank currently with aggro.

hbombs
12-07-2007, 09:41 AM
have the tank with the most HP tank the bear phase. pop on 2x stam trinkets. if you have a warrior tanking troll phase then have him step out and intervene the other Tank during silence or whenever his hp gets low. make sure u save rage for this or have blood rage available.

Bonerot
12-07-2007, 09:58 AM
I agree on the tank with the most HP for the bear phase. Put the weaker geared tank on the troll phase even though they will be doing most of the traditional tanking.

Do NOT taunt early or you might get both debuffs which will kill you.

Have all available hots on you while tanking the bear in anticipation of the silence. If your troll tank is a bear have them drop some heals on you too once you take agro.

What worked best for helping out the healers on my run was calling out the transitions on TS. 5 Seconds to bear, 5 seconds to possible silence, 5 seconds to troll. Don't know if it was DBM or BigWigs that had those timers, they both do probably.