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View Full Version : Human and Orc Racials - Expertise!



Satrina
11-06-2007, 10:31 PM
Confirmed on the 7 November PTR update - Orc and Human racials changed from 1% critical hit to 5 Expertise. That's 5 Expertise skill, not 5 rating.

(screenshot image available at mmo-champion (http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=2182.0))

SoaD!
11-07-2007, 12:01 AM
I love TS, good information, very good newsers and impressive theorycrafting. But you can also add your sources, in this case for the screenshot.

thank you for the news anyway. :)

Tristessa
11-07-2007, 12:23 AM
I love TS, good information, very good newsers and impressive theorycrafting. But you can also add your sources, in this case for the screenshot.

thank you for the news anyway. :)
Why were the eyes of the horse on the jet pilot when he smiled as he flew over the bay, mate? =p

This is interesting news indeed.

Crimsonstorm
11-07-2007, 12:49 AM
This is very good news for us Taurens. If they'd nerfed your racial like that, they wouldve eventually nerfed ours.

No nerfing the Tauren racial, buff the others instead! :)

Narshe
11-07-2007, 12:52 AM
Now I demand more gnome love!!!!

:(

Faze
11-07-2007, 01:00 AM
Yay! I love my human again ;)

Skips
11-07-2007, 01:15 AM
Gnomes still getting an Escape Artist nerf?

Narshe
11-07-2007, 01:18 AM
My comment was more in the line of those LoS problems for being so little -_-
Our Illidari Council mage tank need to jump in order to get an spellsteal, and sometimes it gets resisted :(

Pizoi
11-07-2007, 01:18 AM
All I need now is a 1h tanking axe. Zul'Jin better be nice to me, as a Brutalizer is a ways off in the horizon.

Skips
11-07-2007, 01:22 AM
Apparently the human mace and sword racials stack, giving you 10 expertise if you are dual wielding, is that right?

Ciderhelm
11-07-2007, 02:28 AM
This makes us two for two, Devastate and Human/Orc Racials are the two biggest issues we brought up.

Razmo
11-07-2007, 02:32 AM
Apparently the human mace and sword racials stack, giving you 10 expertise if you are dual wielding, is that right?

That would be very nice for Fury Wars, but do you have a source so I can look it up?

Narshe
11-07-2007, 02:40 AM
I can't confirm but that should work as separate hands, isnt it?
I mean, you would have 5 expertise when dice rolls for your mace and 5 expertise when dice rolls for your sword.

Nicki
11-07-2007, 02:44 AM
seems they listend to the tanks :D

Brickhuase
11-07-2007, 04:55 AM
now to tackle the server side GCD stuff

Link
11-07-2007, 05:04 AM
Too bad I'm a Dwarf. :(

Athan
11-07-2007, 09:23 AM
I'll get on the PTR and test the stacking idea for dual-wielding, but I'm guessing this isn't how it works. Attacks are checked individually for each hand, so if you have two sword equipped, you'll get an independent 5 expertise for your main hand and an independent 5 expertise for your off-hand, as opposed to having, say, a sword and dagger equipped, which would give you 5 expertise for your main hand, and 0 expertise for your off-hand.

Edit: Just did some quick testing, swapping weapons and such and looking at the stat change on the character pane. There is no stacking effect for dual-wielding, that is, equipping two swords will not give you 10 expertise. However, the racial ability seems to trigger as long as you're holding one of your specialized weapons in either hand, ie, holding a dagger in the main hand and a sword in the off-hand still gives you the bonus expertise. Additionally, it would seem that racial expertise is not applied to individual weapons, rather, it counts toward all attacks you make, regardless of whatever you have equipped (as long as one of those equipped weapons is a sword/mace/axe, of course). Combat tests are needed to confirm this.

Caulle
11-07-2007, 09:55 AM
I hate the whole racial thing. They should just erase all racials, and allow everyone to pick 2. But that's just cause I want hax tauren stm bonus too. ;_;

Good news to hear overall though.

Vinexia
11-07-2007, 10:02 AM
Now if only if Troll regeneration was worth something.. :\
Wtb 250/3 @ 70 in tanking gear.

Link
11-07-2007, 11:03 AM
If I could take 2 I would take Tauran Endurance and Human Sword Specialization

Close third and 4th place would be Draenei hit aura and Dwarf Stoneform.

Ciderhelm
11-07-2007, 11:46 AM
I'll get on the PTR and test the stacking idea for dual-wielding, but I'm guessing this isn't how it works. Attacks are checked individually for each hand, so if you have two sword equipped, you'll get an independent 5 expertise for your main hand and an independent 5 expertise for your off-hand, as opposed to having, say, a sword and dagger equipped, which would give you 5 expertise for your main hand, and 0 expertise for your off-hand.

Edit: Just did some quick testing, swapping weapons and such and looking at the stat change on the character pane. There is no stacking effect for dual-wielding, that is, equipping two swords will not give you 10 expertise. However, the racial ability seems to trigger as long as you're holding one of your specialized weapons in either hand, ie, holding a dagger in the main hand and a sword in the off-hand still gives you the bonus expertise. Additionally, it would seem that racial expertise is not applied to individual weapons, rather, it counts toward all attacks you make, regardless of whatever you have equipped (as long as one of those equipped weapons is a sword/mace/axe, of course). Combat tests are needed to confirm this.

Tests probably aren't needed to confirm it. It sounds like it works exactly like Weapon Skill in that regard. This, because we already knew Weapon Skill applied to your Shield Slam and Shield Bash while tanking. That's good. :)

TheZ
11-07-2007, 12:28 PM
I can confirm that the Human +5 expertise for swords and maces does in fact stack when dual wielding.

Here is my setup:
3/3 Defiance for +6 Expertise Skill
Human for +5 Sword/Mace Expertise Skill
Mallet of the Tides +14 rating = +3.55 Expertise Skill = +3 Listed Expertise Skill

With Mace + Shield
14 Skill = -3.5% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

With Sword + Shield
11 Skill = -2.75% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

With Fool's Bane + The Sun Eater
16 Skill = -4.00% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

Mallet of the Tides + The Sun Eater
19 Skill = -4.75% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

Basically what I'm getting from this is that if i was a Fury DPS warrior i would want to DW a Sword and Mace because you're pretty much picking up a free 2.5% chance to hit when behind a mob. This really only stands true if it's not calculated for each hand and not all as one. Still the racial change now makes Orcs / Humans the threat machines of choice =)

Kazeyonoma
11-07-2007, 02:03 PM
the Z, would dual wielding axes benefit a fury warrior at all or is it just carrying 1 axe+another since it won't stack with itself.

Taelas
11-07-2007, 02:39 PM
Not that this isn't a nice change, but what about the other races? And even with this change, we're still not up to par with the tauren.

And, honestly, this is totally overpowered for humans DWing sword/mace. I'm not even sure if the free 5 Expertise isn't overpowered for melee DPSers, period.

Iowynn
11-08-2007, 03:40 AM
I'm now a happy camper. :D

Morthengel
11-12-2007, 04:43 AM
I can confirm that the Human +5 expertise for swords and maces does in fact stack when dual wielding.

Here is my setup:
3/3 Defiance for +6 Expertise Skill
Human for +5 Sword/Mace Expertise Skill
Mallet of the Tides +14 rating = +3.55 Expertise Skill = +3 Listed Expertise Skill

With Mace + Shield
14 Skill = -3.5% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

With Sword + Shield
11 Skill = -2.75% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

With Fool's Bane + The Sun Eater
16 Skill = -4.00% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

Mallet of the Tides + The Sun Eater
19 Skill = -4.75% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

Basically what I'm getting from this is that if i was a Fury DPS warrior i would want to DW a Sword and Mace because you're pretty much picking up a free 2.5% chance to hit when behind a mob. This really only stands true if it's not calculated for each hand and not all as one. Still the racial change now makes Orcs / Humans the threat machines of choice =)

Are these only your calculations, or are they also displayed on your character sheet? Or did you actually tried in combat to verify the values?

I really want to believe mace+sword expertise stack, but need to see some solid evidence first. Anyone?

Bruizer
11-12-2007, 05:15 AM
Basically what I'm getting from this is that if i was a Fury DPS warrior i would want to DW a Sword and Mace because you're pretty much picking up a free 2.5% chance to hit when behind a mob.

As a Human warrior I'm looking forward to putting a bear in front of Morogrim and equipping "DPS gear" with the Mallet and KD next week then. :)

Shortypop
11-12-2007, 05:20 AM
Posting my same concern here as in reply to relay 9:

For:

Mallet of the Tides + The Sun Eater
19 Skill = -4.75% for my attacks to be dodged/parried

I hope I am right in assuming: 6 (defiance) + 10 (sword and mace) + 3 (mallet of tides). On eu-ptr over the weekend the 6 from defiance was only visible on the char sheet when in defensive stance - therefore useless to a fury warrior. I didn't have a chance to check the actual numbers but was hopin someone knew if this is a char sheet bug, or is the expertise from defiance only going to work when in defensive stance - the tooltip is not really clear on this.

Kanukki
11-13-2007, 06:00 AM
I just checked the patch notes from 2.3.0 and the human/orc racial bonus is still listed as +1%crit. Have they reverted back from the expertise bonus, or are the patch notes incorrect?

Hope someone can confirm. Thanks.

Kazeyonoma
11-13-2007, 09:19 AM
As far as I know, the patch notes never updated the expertise change even when the PTR itself had the racial changed so we're in the dark for 2 hours.

Gruffian
11-13-2007, 11:34 AM
Expertise wont really mean much to DPS'ers, because if they are good little boys and girls they will be behind the mob anyways.

Taelas
11-13-2007, 12:53 PM
It will mean a LOT to DPSers as it's the only way to reduce dodge.

Fame
11-13-2007, 01:41 PM
As far as I know, the patch notes never updated the expertise change even when the PTR itself had the racial changed so we're in the dark for 2 hours.

Confermed, it is 5 Expertise on live now!

Herem
11-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Expertise wont really mean much to DPS'ers, because if they are good little boys and girls they will be behind the mob anyways.

As someone said, only way to reduce Dodge. But in a perfect world parry wouldn't be an issue when dpsing.

But for me every night I get 1-2% parries. Trash moves a lot and bosses turn a ton. i.e. VR/Lurker, etc etc.

And no I'm not a clicker and totally moving with the mob making every attempt to stay behind it. So IMO the parry reduction up to 2% will be a direct dps boost as well.

Kazeyonoma
11-13-2007, 02:20 PM
Confermed, it is 5 Expertise on live now!

sweet, now I need Zul'jin on farm to get the axe. =D

Morthengel
11-19-2007, 05:48 AM
Did anyone do any tests so far to see if human sword+mace racials stack or not?