PDA

View Full Version : Who Let the Rogues Out?



Kazaganthi
11-05-2007, 08:20 AM
This weekend was a nice break. For once I didn't have to go to work, didn't have a football game planned, and basically had nothing important going on. After a night of Karaoke and too many beers, I headed home to play a bit more on the PTR.

Being mostly Irish, I naturally assumed my current state would only help me excel in my PTR dueling. How quickly I was proven wrong. While I beat most people out there and every warrior I fought, all of a sudden I was getting stomped by rogues. On live I have not lost a duel to a rogue in over four months. That Friday night I went 2/8 vs. many different rogues. I accepted the beating, whined on vent, spent some time on the porcelain throne, and then passed out.

The next morning I woke up with only a slight hangover and a hazy memory of the night before. I knew that I had lost to rogues the night before, but I just couldn't make myself believe it. After whipping up some waffles, popping some Tylenol, and guzzling two Pepsiís I headed back to redeem myself.

It turns out that my being drunk wasn't the issue. Rogues have been insanely buffed on the PTR. Currently, I can hold a 50% win rating vs. them. This can only be done by using every cool down you have at the perfect time. The burden has moved from the match being the warrior's to lose..to the rogue just owning. I spoke with many warriors and rogues on horde side. Most rogues say that warriors are now cake for them. The ones I beat said that I was the only warrior to beat them. In all it is good to see rogues become stronger, but I think they will be too strong.

In an era of 4 dps teams, mage/rogue/priest 3s domination, and priest/rogue being already strong in 2s.....Season 3 will be the time of the rogue. It should be a nice change for them since they had to eat it season 1. For us..well to be honest...I feel quite uneasy about season 3.

Kaz

Matthew
11-05-2007, 08:53 AM
I have a 70 rogue and keep up with the rogue changes/community still. What you're seeing is rogues going full throttle AR/Prep builds most likely, and yes, they do devestate.

Though they are not really OP to my knowledge, just a lot harder fight...I've heard of some warriors spec'ing into last stand just to have that edge.

Should be interesting to see how everyones Tactics change.

Kazeyonoma
11-05-2007, 11:40 AM
The thread that Ciderhelm put up on the frontpage may explain this.

The GCD change will severely gimp us warriors against rogues who like to dance around us with their stupid jumping and sprinting, causing us to reset GCD's because they aren't in front of us anymore.

Kazaganthi
11-05-2007, 11:58 AM
The supposed top arena warrior Serennia, got hosed 4-0 by a rogue. Even if this guy is not the top warrior, which he is probably not, he is still an extremely skilled example of our class. If he is getting worked by rogues.....I am getting worked by rogues....then there is a good bet that most warriors are going to get worked by rogues after 2.3. To have our counter class flip upside down is in bad taste I think. Like I said, good for them, sucks for us.

Kaz, yes the global coodown change effects this as well. If a rogue wants to be really cheap, you basically can't even hamstring him. However, with the other buffs they don't even need to play like that. Do any other warriors who have dueled rogues on the PTR have any input. From what I've seen and from talking with people, warriors are going to have a problem next season.

Kaz

Ukyo
11-06-2007, 07:02 AM
I was gonna log on later today to see something for a friend on arena ratings, but, now i'm scared t_t

Kazeyonoma
11-06-2007, 10:10 AM
I'm on as horde pvp server Ukyo, lets make a team and throw ourselves at people till we find a rogue team =P

Kazaganthi
11-06-2007, 07:04 PM
I slipped in and did some arena with a druid this evening. Rogues didn't seem so bad when you had a healer. There may be less of an effect than I thought, but time will tell. In 1v1s they remain beast. I also got reamed in a duel by a Stormherald wielding warrior. According to her, she barely notices the mace nerf. She did like swords as well, but had gone back to maces b/c she was tired of getting lit up in 1v1s by rogues on the PTR. Every one still agrees that axe is riding high on the short bus.

Kaz

Kazeyonoma
11-06-2007, 09:28 PM
maces only went down 1.6% so its hardly a nerf.

I wan tto go axes in s3 anyways cuz i think more crit = faster death.

Ukyo
11-06-2007, 10:21 PM
I'm on as horde pvp server Ukyo, lets make a team and throw ourselves at people till we find a rogue team =P
i'll be on the ptr tomorrow, /w Fudoh :D

Kazaganthi
11-07-2007, 05:39 AM
In my opinion axe spec is far worse than either of the other specs. Resilience kills axe spec by lowering the amount of crit and the size of crit. On most 480ish resilience targets I only crit for a max of 1600ish. Mace stun or sword burst is better unless you are planning on raiding a lot.

Kaz

Kazeyonoma
11-07-2007, 10:20 AM
I don't think I've run up against many 400+ resilience in my 1700 backet =P But I guess mace would be overall utility, I just feel like i don't crit enough and I"m already 4/5 merc glad, with almost all veterans gear.

If id on't crit, things don't die =(

psychostomp
11-07-2007, 04:04 PM
dont be so sure kazey ALOT of ppl have been saving up points for about a month now and already have of 300 resil many of them will walk inot their first S3 arena match with 2 and 3 pieces of new gear. Me I just bought my s2 sword 2 weeks ago and wont go back.

Kazeyonoma
11-07-2007, 04:51 PM
hrm, i'd really like to start a poll for those who pvp frequently here which they use and which they prefer (assuming they don't like the one they already use)

I just don't wanna change and regret it.

Daikyu
12-02-2007, 12:05 PM
Excuse me for ressing a dead horse here, but has any one figured out a way to deal with these ridiculous rogue / x teams?

My war / pal team is pretty much getting eaten alive by them if they're any good at all. Although I understand this match-up is nothing close to the power of war / dru, I was wondering if there is something that I'm doing wrong here, or if these rogue / x's are just way out of my 2v2 team's league.

Ukyo
12-02-2007, 01:04 PM
You should use disarm, save your trinket for blind, since you're pretty much getting healed through the Kidney Shot and kite. Sunders help you too (i've won 2/3 matches with war/pal vs rogue/pal stacking 5 sunders :P) and use LoS to your benefit ^^

Kazaganthi
12-02-2007, 08:04 PM
Daik the war/pali combo has seen a great decrease in viability. The only people running it successfully are pali's in BT gear. By successful I mean near the top of your battlegroup. As for rogues, with their new changes, they will be a tough fight. If it is pali/rogue you should win that. Your goal will be to have your pali kite the rogue. If the rogue comes on you, smile, work yourself near teh pali while dpsing the rogue. This opens you up for either sweeping strikes fun or an intim shout. Either way you will throw them into panic mode, and if you're lucky the pali will bubble early or won't get out the fear in time to save his rogue. Hamstring the pali and get him to use freedom on himself. Then hamstring the rogue so your pali can kite. If he focuses you, don't be afraid to slap on a shield. Disarm is risky unless you can stun him. Most rogues are double evasion so landing ms or disarm needs to be timed with your stuns. A nastier version of this combo is rogue/priest or rogue/ice mage. You can win, but you will need to control the rogue as much as possible and time your tricks perfectly. Thunderclap and demo shout are also often overlooked, and can be a difference maker in this matchup.

Kaz

Daikyu
12-04-2007, 10:52 AM
Yeah, I've noticed that too. I have a feeling that unless the healing goes right through wound poison / MS in one cast (cc's prevent more than one cast about every 30 seconds it seems), war / pal doesn't really have much of a chance passing the top pairs right now.

You've made some good points about double hamstring and disarming him when stunned, I'm going to try these in addition to switching us both over to stun resist / sta gems and seeing how that goes. I figure if we can talent / gear towards outlasting all the rogue's cooldowns the chances for success are eventually good, but that sentiment has to be tempered with the dps we need to take down other top pairs like druid / x. It certainly is rough atm.

I guess it's no surprise that my paladin is leveling a rogue...to me class balance in arena is pretty much like a poker game where the top pair / triple / hand changes every few months. I figure with more decently-geared alts we're just holding more cards in a bid to complete with the "best" at some point (the best being the folks that already have a full account of alts).

Nunes
12-22-2007, 09:09 PM
Spec 41/20/0

Pick a target and kill it.