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View Full Version : Need suggestions to improve Raid Performance



Beertap
11-04-2007, 02:40 PM
Now my problem as a Raid Leader is not gear, but raid performance. We've stopped running Karazhan not because we wanted to, but because very little of our raiders need upgrades from there. It's hard enough to get a group that at the very least doesn't shard 75% of the gear.

Currently we are working on VR (13% being our best attempt) and each and every night it's different. Either low DPS, bad heals or tanks getting destroyed by VR and/or not generating enough threat. On top of that, our ranged guys are getting hit by Arcane Orbs over and over again. I took a look at the stats on the attempts and the numbers were insane, it actually looks like they are just mashing buttons like crazy and not caring about the Orbs at all. It's been 5 weeks (1 raid night per week for TK) and we still haven't downed him.

Magtheridon was a similar story when we attempted him. We could get 4 adds down before Magtheridon spawned without any deaths. I'd start tanking him and move him without any problems while the raid killed the last add. We never ever got one cube click right. We attempted him for at least 4 weeks(every raid night after Gruul + another raid night just for Mag) and the best we got was like 88%.

When we're clearing trash to VR in less than an hour consistently and can't down him, there's a problem. To me, it seems like we have 15-18 good players and then the rest are piggyback riding for free gear because they can't perform at all. What suggestions can I take to improve raid performance?

The Officers in the guild have the Raid Leaders' hands tied with iron shackles. Most of our guys don't have raiding specs and can't perform well at all. When you try to help DPS that can't out-DPS the MT but all you get is "I don't need help" or they flat-out ignore you, I feel like there's nothing to do. But then they ask about when will we start SSC and how much longer till BT/Hyjal?

Some of us have offered to run people through 5-mans, Heroics and even Karazhan on non-raid nights but nothing. We try to make people respec to something which is better for the raid but the Officers don't let us enforce that. We then post numerous guides from this very site, Elitist-Jerks, WoW Forums and nothing. We've even written our own easy to understand guides and nothing.

Lavache
11-04-2007, 03:04 PM
recruit over the non-performers. when they dont get raid spots they will shape up or leave. either way you win. post WWS stats on your guild forum - simply seeing how bad they perform may be motivation enough. if you dont have a raid member guild rank make one and take invites from that rank first, then move into regular members - even if you take recruits first who will end up as raid members. make sure that there is a clear explanation of any new policies posted on your forums, and that new rules start at the beginning of a raid week - this gives anyone that actually cares a chance to try before the next week. there are 100's of posts on this in the WoW guild relations forum, most of which will confirm what i just listed off.

i will say though, that if your officers arent enforcing or trying you wont get far regardless of what you do or do not do. it may be time to start looking else where.

Syana
11-05-2007, 01:44 AM
i will say though, that if your officers arent enforcing or trying you wont get far regardless of what you do or do not do. it may be time to start looking else where.

I agree.

Aromit
11-06-2007, 03:05 AM
My guild is also having a problem getting full raid attendance. We're probably going to just reward people who are exceptional raiders [Show up prepared, are independant, research fights before-hand, read their class forums to become better, etc] by giving them a 'raider' rank, and a preferential status when invites go out.

Clifford
11-06-2007, 06:11 AM
My question to you is why your officers don't enforce the raid spec etc?
- Is it because it is contrary to your guild's values (eg people before progress)?
- Are you a social raiding i.e. not hardcore (and I won't even try to define the difference) guild?

If your answer to this is yes then there are fewer options available to you without changing the guild values. However you can still expect and demand a degree of professionalism; for example being ready on time (rl permitting) and having the necessary consumables. Enforcing this behaviour has nothing to do with hardcore raiding but respect for your fellow guild members.

Our guild is similar to that and yet we still manage slow but steady progress. Wiping is an art-form that I have perfected (for example we managed VR after about 10 wipes/resets, which is significantly lower that the average). This type of guild is definitely not for anyone that wants quick progress. Rather the benefits lie in the friendships that this type of guild cultivates.

My single piece of advice is to remind you that the choice is yours but make sure that your chosen guild's objectives and values align with yours :)

nethervoid
11-06-2007, 08:50 AM
recruit over the non-performers. when they dont get raid spots they will shape up or leave. either way you win. post WWS stats on your guild forum - simply seeing how bad they perform may be motivation enough. if you dont have a raid member guild rank make one and take invites from that rank first, then move into regular members - even if you take recruits first who will end up as raid members. make sure that there is a clear explanation of any new policies posted on your forums, and that new rules start at the beginning of a raid week - this gives anyone that actually cares a chance to try before the next week. there are 100's of posts on this in the WoW guild relations forum, most of which will confirm what i just listed off.

i will say though, that if your officers arent enforcing or trying you wont get far regardless of what you do or do not do. it may be time to start looking else where.

OMG I love this post! Awesome ideas!

Secondly, your guild needs to choose whether or not they're serious about progression, because it doesn't sound like they are. (Guild goals as a whole)

Lavache
11-06-2007, 08:57 AM
OMG I love this post! Awesome ideas!


woo! we have also started demoting people from raider to member when they dont perform - it has cause several people to work pretty hard on gear and spec.

nethervoid
11-06-2007, 10:51 AM
woo! we have also started demoting people from raider to member when they dont perform - it has cause several people to work pretty hard on gear and spec.

I like all of these kinds of ideas. You can still have a guild with casual people, but you set a certain standard if they want to join the raiding part of the guild. It's not mandatory to join the raiders, but if you do join you do have to commit to some level of dedication. This is probably the biggest hurdle casual guilds face: 'I want to raid, but I don't want to change anything I do to garner success'. Basically these people are just leeches, IMO. I mean it's one thing if you're downing all the bosses, but when you CAN'T down bosses, people need to change to make the raid stronger. Sometimes that is most definitely a talent change or spending some research time on their class instead of being lazy or selfish.

Some people say your skill with your class can make you just as competative with a pvp build, but really people shouldn't be looking at it that way. That's like saying 'Look I'm just as good as that PvE specced guy when I'm PvP specced' which translates to 'I suck just as bad as that guy'. One guy doesn't have the skill, and he's under-performing, and the other guy has the skill, but his spec is holding back performance. It's just math.

*edited for clarity

Ceravantes
11-06-2007, 05:26 PM
Some people say your skill with your class can make you just as competative with a pvp build, but really people shouldn't be looking at it that way. That's like saying 'Look I'm just as good as that PvE specced guy when I'm PvP specced' which translates to 'I suck just as bad as that guy'. One guy doesn't have the skill, and he's under-performing, and the other guy has the skill, but his spec is holding back performance. It's just math.

The thing ehre is, if they can be competitive off specced, then they would be well beyond specced correctly. Hardcore or not, speccing goes with coming to a raid prepared, it is not about you and your wants when raiding, it iss about the raids. Anyone who does not spec, or is otherwise unprepared is being disrespectful to all other members.


As far as the original topic, as was said already, recruit over them and post wws, when people actually see how badly they are doing they may be embarassed enough to change.