View Full Version : Motivating the masses

11-01-2007, 06:57 AM
First, I guess a little background. I'm one of five council members of our guild, on Azjol-Nerub. We've seen some moderate success since I think our server is one that is still lagging behind in progression, I think we've got some guilds working on, but not clearing SSC and Eye. Ourselves, we clear Kara and have been as far as to get Gruul down to 14% on our only run of Gruul's. My guild is a Casual-Raiding style of guild, but it seems as if it's more casual than raiding. We dont use DKP, for various reasons, but it has been something we've discussed on more than one occasion. We use simple forum-based sign ups for the raids... nothing tricky at all here... nothing. We recruit quality people, both in skill and personality and have a rather regular raiding schedule.

Here's the frustraiting part, we have a total of 37 70's in the guild, with maybe 5 of them being alts... and we cant even reliably get a second Kara team together.

Aggrivation is doubled when we dont have a signup sheet for a Kara Team 2, and then you get a miriad of guildies asking 'Is team 2 running this week'? It's hard to justify trying to run it every week when it's only even got maybe a 50% run rate. Team 1 can clear Kara, Team 2 hardly runs... but does well when it does.

On top of that, 'apparantly' every 70 in the guild also has a want to do Gruul's and Mag's. The only Gruul's run we did had a turn out of ~13 guildies, with the rest of the spots filled with another guild whom we have an 'alliance' with.

Then you look at the roster to see 37 eligible people... all of which have expressed interest in raiding... in progressing... and we cant even fill out a second Kara group. All the officers know we can progress and quickly too, we have some of the best DPS/Tanks/Healers on the server and have a good reputation.

The issue now is that we're trying to get a good solid grip on Kara, get it on farm whether or not we're going to see Gruul's (even though we technically can). We want two teams farming it, clearing it in 5 hours, so when 2.3 comes out we can set foot in ZA and at least be doing something new.

Is there a way to motivate the other guildies more? Should we think about a DKP system? We dont want to be a hardcore raiding guild, we want to be casual-raiding as we've always been... but we want to progress, that's the point of raiding. We want people to have fun, spec the way they want too, gear the way the want too, play when they want too... thats what we've always done. So how can we bridge the gap between casual and raiding? It seems to be more a problem now than ever because we have the numbers, we have the resources, we have enough healers, enough tanks... but we dont seem to have the interest or attendance that we should be expecting.

We're at our wits end about it, feels like we're chasing our tails. We've even just suggested going down to one team of our raiders in good standing (come all the time, know whats going on, want to progress) and put a second team (not to mention 25-man content) on the back burner.

So before we get to that point, I thought I'd get some good advice from the community here. Thanks!

11-01-2007, 07:59 AM
Just read 'em the Henry V St. Crispian speech over vent!

But Seriously, with a roster of essentially 32 you will have a hard time filling raids unless you are a hardcore raiding guild. If nothing else, the weekly events in people's lives will run you under 25 often enough to be a hassle. We're a mandatory attendance (if you're online) raiding guild and we need to run a roster around 40 people to keep raids full and have enough on the waitlist to keep it rolling to the end of the night, given people's comings and goings.

The fact that you define yourselves to be casual raiding (I assume that people can decline to raid without penalty?) pretty much demands that you recruit until you're filling raids to satisfy desires. This can be a real sticking point for small "friendly guild" types. It also will potentially create tension when teams A and B are finally both rolling Karazhan cleanly and other people suddenly develop a keen interest in raiding. Fair-weather raiders are fun.

The next best thing is to enter an alliance with another guild or two in a similar position. I personally would never give myself that headache again, but others have good success with it.

11-01-2007, 12:28 PM
The reality of no-commitment is it is the polar opposite of steady progression. There are two ways you can solve this problem:

1. Be more commitment focused. This probably won't work because you started your guild telling everyone 'we don't expect any commitment'. It would have worked better if you would have set up commitment minimums so as to recruit a guild of more like-minded people. You don't have to set high minimums, but just having any minimum will weed out people who are so sporadic they really frustrate your core members. It's just easier to run any raiding guild this way. Much less heartache, and in the end less 'work'.

2. Recruit a lot more raiders. This will work, but you will now end up gearing 2 or 3 times as long as a guild with even a minimal amount of commitment requirements because you have to gear up 40 people for each Kara group. That sucks. =( If you had some minimum requirements, you could cut that to like 20/Kara Group.

Hate to see so many guilds in this very situation, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You've got to set higher expectations up front, and then you get the people who have the same mind for raiding as you do, which obviously makes everything just easier because people almost automatically agree with all the policies and desires of the guild and its members.

*edited for clarity

11-01-2007, 12:37 PM
One day, you need to break it down for the guild.

Say "look, we have two options here, we can either stay in Kara for the next few months, or we can start progressing. Everyone individually has a choice: you can either commit to progression, or remain casual."

Then see who wants to do what and build from there. Recruit new people to each "camp" and focus on the goals of each. If they want to progress, you have to tell them you need some commitment.