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Pitstarter
10-25-2007, 07:07 AM
Hopefully I've got the right board, done a search too like a good little tanker, but couldn't readily see what I was after.

I'm a primary MT for my guild, a casual 2/3 raid night guild. We're comfortably killing Gruul (bar the odd unlucky wipe) and have been trying Void Reaver (best attempt 9% before enrage sadly). The Gruul kill last night took a little longer than planned, we had several lengthy pauses as folk disconnected or whatever. This left us little time to try for a couple of VR shots, so I decided to take us into Magtheridon just to check it out.

We had one or two folk that had been there before with hardcore guilds, and I was happy to let them co-ordinate things.

So, everyone was excited and even managed not to right click any channelers before the fight (we had a bet in officer chat on culprits). Fight starts, everything going rather well, if memory serves, we are on the 4th channeler by the time Magtheridon spawns and I pick him up and back up towards a wall arranged beforehand.

As we approach the first clicking session, I got killed. Fair enough, I thought. Checking the combat log, I noticed it was a 10k cleave that got me, in addition to a normal hit. Shield block was active.

Should I be taking that amount of damage? I think my armoury profile has me in tanking gear (if I have netherwing crop, pvp trinket and TF, I'm in mounted mode - usually have Moroes, colossus and Sun Eater). In work so can't check any other resource sites!

Any advice welcome.

Aradon
10-28-2007, 09:47 PM
Obviously, Mag is a fight where gearing for stam/armor is really the only way to go. You're at 13.7k health unbuffed so you'll sit around 18k buffed with everything. That should be enough health to survive a 10k cleave and any other hit, probably even if it crushes. So you've got a few options (or you can do all of them).

Swap out some of your avoidance gems for more stamina (8 parry gem is a no-no), you'd easily push yourself a bit over 14k unbuffed by doing that. Don't use figure of the colussus, it's really bad for anything besides soloing the panther boss in ZG. My trinket suggestion for this fight if you can't get the furies darkmoon card quickly would be to pick up Dabiri's Enigma in addition to your moroes trinket. By alternating the cooldowns right around the ends of the earthquakes that mag does you'll make yourself uncrushable (or close to it depending on your stats) at the time when it'll be hardest for healers to land some big heals. Also make sure your healers are keeping you fully topped off at all times, otherwise you're going to die from a cleave+melee combo.

Other than that just make sure you're getting all the appropriate buffs (devo/blood pact, etc) and even use some consumables. Getting 4 channelers down is a really good spot to be, especially when you're just learning, so if you can survive the fight you guys should kill him pretty soon. Good luck.

Morthengel
10-29-2007, 12:17 AM
Magtheridon has a frontal cleave attack, that deals 10k damage on plate (w shield). But I have never seen any mob cleave in this game, unless there are two players in melee range, and after a patch both should be in front of the mob.

So tell your melee dps stay behing him, and not get in front of him and cleaved during earthquakes, and you should be fine.

Nilya
10-29-2007, 04:49 AM
Magtheridon hits like a truck coming out of the gate, and only lets up during the Earthquakes. 6-7kish hits and 10K cleaves are not unusual. He's basically like a 10-12 growth Gruul throughout the fight. Healers will have to top you off after every hit, as has been said before. Most of the fight is getting people to click their cubes correctly, and healers being proactive enough to keep you up.

The diciest part of the fight will be after 30%, when he does the cave-in on the whole raid. It will hurt everyone a lot, as well as stun them. This is when you'll want to hit something like Last Stand. Usually, one of the Holy Paladins bubbles during this to make sure I don't go splat.

Pitstarter
10-29-2007, 05:03 AM
Thank you so much for the advice folks.

I'll look into the trinket & gem issue before next raid. If I recall, swapping out the figurine puts me below 25% block rating. I'm sure I can bring it back up with something else. I'll probably pop the auto-blocker in, need to jiggle to get the block rating back up though.

One thing I think that isn't helping is a lack of warlocks. We have 2 active, was chatting to a hardcore friend who says 4 is desirable, to get the banishes asap, and lessen the burden on the healers. Perhaps then the healers won't have their attention diverted from healing me.

Also, I was thinking, if we are comfortably getting 3 channelers down, and on the 4th when Magtheridon spawns, what about me tanking the 3rd channeler, having a paladin on #1 and a fuzzy on #2. Perhaps it would lessen the damage needing healed, and free up the fuzzy to do a little dps when her target is down.

Aradon
10-29-2007, 05:45 PM
Thank you so much for the advice folks.

I'll look into the trinket & gem issue before next raid. If I recall, swapping out the figurine puts me below 25% block rating. I'm sure I can bring it back up with something else. I'll probably pop the auto-blocker in, need to jiggle to get the block rating back up though.

One thing I think that isn't helping is a lack of warlocks. We have 2 active, was chatting to a hardcore friend who says 4 is desirable, to get the banishes asap, and lessen the burden on the healers. Perhaps then the healers won't have their attention diverted from healing me.

Also, I was thinking, if we are comfortably getting 3 channelers down, and on the 4th when Magtheridon spawns, what about me tanking the 3rd channeler, having a paladin on #1 and a fuzzy on #2. Perhaps it would lessen the damage needing healed, and free up the fuzzy to do a little dps when her target is down.

Well you don't need 25% block, you just need a combined block/dodge/parry/miss at least 27.4% so that shield block will put you to uncrushable. It doesn't have to be only in block.

Warlocks do play a big part in phase 1, especially when you're first learning the fight. If you can't get more though make sure every class is doing everything they can to CC them. Frost traps, blinds, warrior and priest fears. Also, you can have your tanks for the first to channelers tank some if necessary.

Having you on the third channeler would also be an option assuming you're consistently getting 3 down before Mag pops. It's the same thing we used to do, I don't really see how it makes much of a difference though.

Atomsk
10-29-2007, 09:37 PM
Yea, what we do for add kill order, me being the MT:

I take the skull, prot warrior takes X, feral druid double tanks circle and square, prot warrior tanks start. Skull dies first, and the raid moves on to kill X. As they do that, I run to the feral druid and pick one add up off of him, and move it away. By the time I have done that, the X is dead, and my target gets killed. as my target is being killed, the prot warrior who was on X moves to the feral druid and sunders it down/shield bashes. When mine dies, I have about 15-30 seconds, and I run to the star and disarm/tclap/demo shout to help him out.

When Magtheridon is about to release, I drink an Ironshield Potion(start getting these if you do not already have them), blood rage, and open with a shield slam. I turn him around, and back him into position SLOWLY, as well as bust out the moroes' lucky pocket watch. You go slowly to give your healers time to reposition themselves(if they arent in the proper position already) as you get the final position on Magtheridon. That is something crucial, I made the mistake of moving too fast the first few times when learning the fight.

Mag hits like a truck man, make sure you have everything to ensure your survival. Ironshield Potion, Flask/Elixirs, make sure your pally has the right aura up, and if you are lucky enough to have a shaman in your group, demand grace of air, not windfury. You shouldn't have any threat issues because of the long amount of time where its just you and mag at the start, and the various people rotating in and out of cube clicks.

Hope it helps ;p

maddfez
11-01-2007, 07:25 AM
If you're short warlocks, have hunters dropping freezing traps and the tanks that get freed up go round up some as well. Place the freezing traps by the healers for tanks 3-5, so the healer can just take a quick step and get the infernal trapped if necessary.

We generally had myself tank adds two and three plus Mag...provides a little incentive for your dps to get that third add down fast if there's no one else to pick up Mag. When Mag pops, I'll secure aggro, wait to see heals incoming, then back him up...moving quickly here can cause you to go out of range which ends badly.

For our guild though, we got the first 2:30 of the fight down easily...then we found out we were just plain terrible at clicking. Disconnects, people clicking early, etc... I wish you better clicking than we had!

Ceravantes
11-01-2007, 12:01 PM
Magtheridon has a frontal cleave attack, that deals 10k damage on plate (w shield). But I have never seen any mob cleave in this game, unless there are two players in melee range, and after a patch both should be in front of the mob.

So tell your melee dps stay behing him, and not get in front of him and cleaved during earthquakes, and you should be fine.

There is no AI that makes mob's cleave only when there is multiple players infront of them, it is an ability with a cooldown.

He hits very hard, and the original transition is the toughest part, getting healers in the proper places etc. so long as your raid can click cubes properly once youa re in position andbeing healed it is smooth sailing until cave in at 30%.

elio
11-01-2007, 12:15 PM
One thing I did as we where learning Mag- dont know if you have it but using your Moroes trinket and a stone/ironshield pot does help reduce some of that initial damage and let your healers get in place. Remember whoever is tanking the last channeler will take massive damage and he needs to be tanked like you would a boss encounter in regards to SB and crushing cause they do crush.

After all adds are down use the trinket and pots on cooldown. As your gear gets better you will use less pots and not even use the trinket.

He hits like a truck and that cleave is a killer.

Good luck- the transition to him is the hardest part of the encounter.

kevinb70
11-02-2007, 07:32 AM
I dont exactly know why but we have been having pally try to MT mag, who has less hp than me. I always wound up being the 5th channeler tank since I have most hp (not even using my max stam set). If we didn't die to blast wave since people still haven't gotten their act together about clicking, then it was mag killing the tank and running loose. Our best was 80%. Last night I finally MT mag. Second try we get him to 3%. TWO priests I saw stop right in front of me and cast greater heal and die instantly to cleave... so frustrating.

I decided what the problem was is tank does not have enough stam for this fight. With bouncing around, healers won't be able to get heals off. I am absolutely NOT a proponent for avoidance tanks... because those unlucky consecutive hits WILL happen and you will die. I am a solid star of elune tank all the way... but for this fight... replace T4 with maiden gauntlets with 2SSOE, tank trinkets repl with stam trinkets, of course my bulwark oAK with +12STA (instead of my panzy gemmed with avoidance)... I was sitting at about 20.4k HP buffed.


Not a single problem keeping me up on health. Sure I sacrificed ~3-4% avoidance... but that is not much when you are talking avoiding 38 vs 42 hits out of 100. With 3 healers on me, it is better to have a bigger bucket of HP because they are all casting heals, it is better to have the extra stam to hold the heal instead of it rolling off into overheal nearly every cast.

Only problem was dps dying off and priests who kept winding up in cleave range and turning into little angels.

Wargaszm
11-02-2007, 07:49 AM
I agree Stam gear all the way for Mag and Armor, Iron shields Pots FTW. And then pray that the priest/shaman can keep insperation and ancestrial fort up on you with crit heals that reduces ur damage taken alot.

And if you fish ... Scroll of Agility V and Scroll of Protection V are nice too.

klor
11-12-2007, 12:31 PM
One thing I am not sure of, and this may be a newb question....but can his cleave crush?

Armstrong
11-12-2007, 01:17 PM
As a general rule special abilities and spells performed by mobs cannot be crushing blows or crits.

This includes everything from cleaves, whirlwinds, hurtful / hateful strikes / bolts, dragons breath, knockbacks, all of Shade of Aran's spells, etc etc etc.

In other words the only type of damage that can be a crit or crushing is "auto-attack" damage. This include elemental melee damage, such as the shadow-based melee attack from the first boss in Arcatraz and other elemental-type mobs. Blizzard has the ability to created exceptions to this rule however, as was done by removing Hydross' ability to land crushing blows.

klor
11-12-2007, 01:37 PM
Thank you. Wasn't for sure if it applied to special attacks or not. :) Still not 100% sure on some of the mechanics but how better to learn than to ask, right?

Shortypop
01-02-2008, 02:13 AM
Thought I'd revive this thread with a couple of questions as I am heading to maggy for the first time friday. Current plan is 2 prot tanks on channelers 4 and 5 (I'm on 5), and three druid tanks (with a rogue/dps warrior each) on channelers 1,2 and 3. Our main druid tank will be tanking Maggy. Here are my questions:

- Is the shadow bolt volley spell reflectable?

- I gather they start 25yards away from each other, if we drag them back to the wall (how moveable are they?) will they be out of heal range of each other?

- An a really odd question - can more than one hunter misd to the same tank at the same time?

Marn
01-02-2008, 03:17 AM
I haven't done Magtheridon in awhile and I can't remember whether the shadow volleys could be reflected, but it's pretty easy to interrupt/heal through so don't worry too much on this.

You can't really range the heals, the room is too small.

3rd, two misdirects on one tank at the same time? No. One after the other? Yes.

I dunno if this following suggestion will mess up your strategy but, we found what worked really well was having a single druid tank channelers 1 and 2, your Magtheridon tank on channeler 3, and your other 2 offtanks on 4 and 5. We would have hunter A misdirect channeler 2 to the first tank, who manually picks up channeler 1 and then receives extra threat from hunter B misdirecting channeler 1. On the other hand since you're using 3 druids and 2 warriors instead of 1 druid and 3 warriors, you might not have too bad dps problems further on in the fight if the first few druids are in cat gear but bear form.


Hope this helps although again, I haven't seen the fight in months.

Worldie
01-02-2008, 07:10 AM
Ahum, ye shadow volley is not reflectable.

For the heal, it's actually rangeable. We usually gather the non-dpsd-adds in the back of the room so they are away from the current one and don't heal it. When it's going to die we bring the next one to the zerg, then the next, etc.

Sandmann
01-02-2008, 08:04 AM
i think if you tank the adds where they are from the start they can just heal the add next to them (may it be left or right), if you have a elemental or enchancment shaman you could tell him to go to the next add when the focused add is at ~50% or so to stop heals, especially if you use druids as tanks.

Armstrong
01-02-2008, 04:28 PM
If you back up a few steps to the wall behind where the adds initially stand, they will be out of heal range from one another.

If your druid tanks' gear and the rest of your strat allows it, I would suggest you put prot warriors on the first few adds. That way as soon as one of them is freed up they can go interrupt SB volleys on one of the adds tanked by the druids. Prot warriors also have a wider range of options to help manage the infernals (intervene, hamstring, fear, etc) and can help keep the rest of the raid alive until the adds are taken care of.

Only one instance of Misdirect can exist on a player at any given time. A second hunter casting Misdirect on you will remove the first hunter's Misdirect buff. They can however coordinate with each other and Misdirect in succession to the same tank.

Lastly, the Chanellers can be Taunted, which opens up interesting possibilities, like Misdirecting adds 4 & 5 to tank #4 and having tank #1 picking up one of them after add #1 goes down. This allows you to do the fight with only 4 tanks, freeing up a slot for extra healing or DPS. It also lets you use one of your better geared tanks to handle the two most difficult adds (#1 requires fastest threat generation and #5 requires highest survivability).

Shortypop
01-03-2008, 03:28 AM
Thanks for the responses, our reason to put the two prot warriors on the last two adds was so that they could interupt as much as possible from the beginning - also both are specced into improved defensive stance. As it's our first try we'll keep it simple with one tank per channeler - two of the druids will be in kitty gear so their dps after tanking should be good.

I'll let you know how it goes :)

Armstrong
01-03-2008, 08:54 AM
The SB volley has a max range.

Typically a single SB volley from the add being DPSd down will hit 17-18 people, while a SB volley from one of the other adds will only hit 2-3 people.

Which one do you want to interrupt? :)

Wellbred
01-03-2008, 10:42 AM
Anyone know if there's a video online of this fight? I'd love to take a peek at one as I may be going into this instance (horrendously undergeared too, but only going to be OT for early channeler.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found a couple.

Shortypop
01-04-2008, 07:45 AM
True Armstrong, have changed strats a bit to take the potential shadow bolt damage into account. Now just to swallow painkillers (got a really nasty cold) and hope tonight goes well.

Shortypop
01-05-2008, 02:47 AM
Only 2 hours of tries, due to various reasons, but we were consistently getting 3 channelers down before mag and on one occasion got through the first blast wave ok, before missing the clicking on the second one. Main problem seemed to be keep the squishies alive at the very start due to agro problems and infernals - but we'll get there.

Also, I discovered that maggy's room is very gnome unfriendly - those pedstals the cubes and channelers are on are tall enough to block a gnome from los :(

EDIT: Maggy down on our next visit - many thanks for all the help.

Cairn
02-26-2008, 10:33 PM
With the new 2.4 patch , someone have read the modification for Magtheridon.

Clifford
03-03-2008, 01:38 PM
Didn't see this listed here. The Orion Magtheridon Assistant (http://elitistjerks.com/344098-post77.html) mod removes the stress from cube clicking assignment (assuming no-one dies, else people must be quick to replace)

Daavos
05-08-2008, 01:05 PM
At 8% I was hit 3 consecitive times without a heal and took 21k in damage, dying, and ended up the watching the raid wipe.

So you're healers should be healing you after every hit.

Nuberino
05-08-2008, 01:14 PM
So you're healers should be healing you after every hit.Right, with his cleave and then a possible parry he can burst very quckly very fast. But honestly the only time you shouldn't have a 4-5-6 healers on you after all the summoners are down is at 30% when the ceiling collapses... an ideal time to pop shield wall and let your healers get the raid back to full.