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Fubar
10-16-2007, 08:44 AM
Hello,

I can use all of your opinions on guild structures and charters. Recently, a few of us left our guild(s) and server to start a raiding guild on a server that was in our time zone. (we were all randomly assigned to a PST server and most of use are on EST).

It is by all our intentions to be a raiding guild with progression and new content on the very near horizon.

Now, we have our old friends wanting to come over from our old server, people who we enjoyed questing with and 5 person instancing with; however they are not raiders. Some of them may lack the want and drive to do the homework on the bosses, appropriate gear, etc.

While most of these are IRL friends, or friends we have made along the way, we don't want to seem elitist or callous to those who are not like minded. How have you or your guilds handled the "friends of" aspects in raiding guilds? What would you have done differently? Has it been effective over time as you progressed?


Thanks so much,
Fubs
Exodar

Sonti
10-17-2007, 01:58 AM
I guess it differs from guild to guild but I'll explain how we did and do it now.

We introduced a rank "Guild Friend" for the "too casual" players who couldn't raid as we wanted but still wanted to stay in guild due to friendships etc. and it worked fine for friends.

When we came to our Cockblocker Kael the attendance on members started to go down as happens on most guilds and in order to keep progressing we decided to go more hardcore and introduced a rank called "Veteran" which was given to players with high attendance and the required focus and no mess ups. Veteran's have priority on loot and raidspots over members. Before veteran rank we had to relearn the fights every week because we usually had different members and raid setups but now it all goes much faster.

Anyway, all the veteran story may not relate to your question at all but I guess what I'm trying to say is, it really depends on how "hardcore" you are willing to go in progressive raiding. Before veteran thingy we had members messing up on really easy bosses but we weren't strict enough because of things like "yeah sure he messed up but hes a really great guy, helpfull etc". Now we decided to go one step further into being a hardcore guild, we can't afford to care about how nice the player is, how long he has been withing the guild etc. which may be kinda harsh but it was a needed decision if we ever wanted to see Illidan before expansion.

On short, "Guild Friend" rank is great for having friends in guild who don't care about raiding or can't raid.

Ceravantes
10-17-2007, 08:32 AM
The issue here is structure, you can be a very hardcore guild and still have many casual members. The whole idea behind it is to structure the guild properly, and clearly define rules ahead of time. You can prevent most problems by planning ahead, and with casual players in a raiding guild non defining their role can be guild breaking.

For instance, if you allow your casual members to raid at the drop of a hat, and replace a member who has raided that creates tension between all members of the guild and if allowed to continue it will destroy the guild, as on officer you must be impartial, promoting or giving loot to friends over those who earned it will cause a guild to fall apart before you can even progress anywhere.

Fubar
10-17-2007, 12:10 PM
thanks to both of you, very insightful!

fubs

Satrina
10-17-2007, 12:25 PM
We have a part time rank even though we're a raid guild. We invite as part time people who are old friends and such. Full time members for whom life gets too busy to remain a full time raider choose to be set to part time as well.

- Part time members are not required to post when they can't make (or will be late for) raids, unlike full time members.
- Part time members may choose to not be on the wait list for raids if they wish on a given night.
- When filling the raid, full time and recruits get in before part time, and when replacing people who leave early, full time and recruits are chosen before part time (unless we need the part time person's class, etc. We always reserve the right to pick what we need)
- Once a part time member is invited to the raid, they are not automatically bumped for a full time member, unless they choose to be or we replace them because we need a different class than theirs (this can happen to full time or recruits as well)
- Part time earns DKP the same as anyone else, but the priority for winning loot is full time -> recruit -> part time -> alts

As long as you clearly define the role and limitations of part time people in advance, there should be no problems. Defining in advance a method by which part time people can change to full time is also a very good idea. Again, ours:

- We must be currently recruiting that class
- You are on a 3 week probation where you must maintain full time attendance as any recruit for three weeks or you will be put back down to part time automatically
- During probation (and beyond of course,) you must post if you will be late or not present for a given raid
- During probation, you remain part time for the purposes of loot priority
- Assuming all goes well, 3 weeks later I change your status to full time in the roster and DKP system.