View Full Version : Steel and Fire- Kazaganthi's Guide to Arena

10-06-2007, 09:38 AM
Steel and Fire- A Warrior Arena Guide

"Individual commitment to a group effort-that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work." ~ Vince Lombardi

This is a guide for any warrior interested in competing in arena. First, a little history about me. I have played this game since day one. I first logged on as a dwarf hunter, named Dagnabit. I played him for over a year mostly for pvp. He was respected and known on both sides of the line as a fierce opponent. However, something was missing. In that year, I became friends with the horde that I fought so valiantly. Because of that, I rolled a tauren warrior named Kazaganthi on the horde side. I leveled him up strictly through pvp; you got experience for turning in marks back then. Since that time, I have leveled up three more warriors. I have faced some of the best pvpers there are in the Bloodlust battlegroup on Pwentt, and the Stormstrike battlegroup on Kazaganthi. Between all my characters I have over 330k honor kills. On Kazaganthi, I broke into Gladiator level in 2s and 3s. We just missed it in 5s. Near the middle of season two my guild moved to Bleeding Hollow on the Ruin battlegroup due to Ysondre’s low population.
This guide is the sum of my experiences in the two seasons of play, movies I’ve studied, and finally tricks I have learned. If this guide helps you win one arena, I’ll consider it a success. Remember, arena is a place where two seconds can mean the difference between winning and losing, living and dying.

1. Building Your Warrior

A. Speccing your warrior

For a warrior, proper spec is extremely important. There are several talent builds that make or break arena warriors. They all include mortal strike. Mortal strike is the single most beneficial talent a warrior brings to the arena. Yes we can take a beating and do excellent damage, but a 50% healing debuff shines in arena. Fury’s dps can’t match it, and there is no way to force a team to attack a prot warrior. I will go over the pros and cons of a few ms specs here.

a. Survival Spec- 35/25/3

Survive (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0500502134201502200120005500131005012 00000000300000000000000000000)
This spec is my personal favorite. It is built to help your team keep you alive. A dead warrior is a warrior that does no damage. In season two, it seems like 4 dps teams are the norm. These teams thrive on being able to kill the warrior right at the start. This spec provides several ways to help you survive that.
First it gives you second wind. Second wind is divine in arena. It basically provides you with your own renew. It is triggered when you get stunned or immobilized. This means that things like frost nova trigger it. It also scales as your health increases.
It also gives you bloodcraze. At 12k health bloodcraze gives you about 360 health over six seconds. This may not sound like much, but it activates every time you get crit. Over the course of an arena battle, or when you are focused by a four dps team and extra health is good health. It actually adds up to quite a bit of healing over time.
Tactical Mastery is the final survival talent this spec provides. TM provides you with options. You can switch stance and immediately disarm or shield reflect. Disarming a rogue or in the near future a fellow warrior or reflecting a spell at the right time can mean the difference between winning and losing. It also means that you can pop back out of defensive and immediately have rage to begin thrashing the enemy.

b. Max damage Spec 31/30

Burst (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0500502134201502000100005050104025012 05000000000000000000000000000)

This is a spec for any one who wants to maximize their damage in arena. It is popular with warriors in 4 dps teams and in the 2s and 3s bracket.
Flurry is a huge buff to your dps. It increases your attack speed by 25%. This lets you maximize the damage your do to the opposing team.
Commanding presence is a very nice buff to your attack power or to your health if you use commanding shout. At 4/5 it provides a 20% increase to either your battle shout or commanding shout.

c. Mix and Match 35/23/3

Noktyn (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?3200502132201502301120005050104005012 00000000300000000000000000000)
This is an interesting spec. It is used by Noktyn of Power Trip, a warrior well known for his arena domination. It provides several useful tools for the arena warrior.
This spec provides you with improved hamstring. With 3/3 in it the talent gives a 15% chance to root the target in place for five seconds. This can mean life or death in arena. If it procs and your target is out of line of sight of his healer, he is a deadman. It can also help save your allies if it allows them to slip away from who is on them. If you run a melee heavy team the blood frenzy provides another nice damage buff to you and your teamates.

d. Mix and Match 33/28

Serennia (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0500502132201502200120055000131025012 03000000000000000000000000000)

This is another interesting spec. This spec is used by former #1 warrior in the world Serennia. Using it Serennia maintained a stranglehold on BG9's top spot for most of season 2.
The fact that this spec gives you near 31/30 damage with survivability options is the key to it's success. Blood craze and second win provide much needed healing to blunt "gib" teams burst damage. The 3/5 flurry and improved execute allow you to pile on the damage while staying alive. The only downside is that without tm you cannot do an instant disarm or shield reflect. This is more of a weakness in 2s than in 5s. With smart play the loss really isn't an issue.

e. Mix and Match 36/25

Kaziganthi (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0500502132201502302120005050131025012 00000000000000000000000000000)

This is the spec I currently use. It works best with other melee b/c of the 4% damage bonus from blood frenzy. It also has high survivability with both second wind and blood craze. The improved hamstring can be a life savor if you teamates are trying to escape another warrior or rogue. This is a very strong build if you plan on running warrior/druid in 2s.

B. Which weapon's spec is for me?

a. There are three weapons specs that you must choose from to be an arms warrior. They are axe, sword, and mace. Each of these has it's benefits and weaknesses. You must decide which is the best for you.

1.) Axe Spec
This is a great spec for PVE damage. The extra crit is a huge bonus as you tackle any boss fight. However, while it was very strong in Season 1, axe spec no longer shines in arena. The problem here is the effect of resilience on crit. Resilience effects both the amount of times you crit and the size of your crit. This means that on a 490 resil target, you hit with a Season 2 weapon for about 1500 on a crit. Because of this, you see very few axe wielding warriors in high level arenas.

2.) Sword Spec
This is my favorite spec for arena. Unlike axe, sword does not suffer double damage from reslience. Sword spec gives you a 5% proc rate for an extra attack. This extra attack can also crit. The burst this provides in arena can be invaluable. I have won many matches because of a lucky proc.

3. Mace Spec

Many people assumed maces would fade away with their 2% proc rate nerf. However, reports from the field seem to all agree, mace is still strong with Stormherald. The stun proc that this spec gives you is invaluable in 2s and 3s, and is still strong in 5s. Basically it causes frustration to your opponents. This gets them off their game and like a druid abusing cyclone, makes you smile. This is also the spec for 1v1 fighting. If that is your thing, spec mace.

C. Gearing your warrior

a. The arena warrior must strive for balance in his gear. If you have tons of attack power but no stamina, you won’t survive long. If you have tons of crit but no attack power you will hit like a mage with his sword. Dreasus has an excellent article on this in his pvp guide so I won’t go very far into it. A good rule to aim for is 1600 unbuffed AP, at least 30% crit in zerk, over 12k stam, and over 300 resilience. Dreasus’s guide can be found here. TheorySpot - Dreasus PVP (http://www.tankspot.com/index.php?pageid=DreasusPVPGuide)

2. General advice for arena

A. The Basics

If you take nothing else from this guide, memorize the next paragraph and apply it. The single most important aspect of arena play is your teammates. You must always be aware of what is happening to them while you are dpsing. You must constantly watch everything that is happening; your head must be on a swivel so to speak. Protecting your teammates is your job in arena. This can mean hamstringing the rogue on your teammate, intercepting at a key time to allow a teammate to escape, or a well timed fear to save your allies. You also must make sure that you do not go out of line of sight of your healer. I can’t tell you how many games I have won because the opposing team’s warrior charged too far ahead and then was led out of line of sight of his team.

There are a few basic things that you can do to immediately improve your play. First key bind everything. You must be able to use all of your abilities while watching what is happening in the battle. A clicker cannot do this effectively. You may be a good players as a clicker, but key binding will transform you into a pvp monster. You should also get familiar with turning using your mouse. This allows you to spin, run out and jump intercept, and all around be far more effective then wasd. You should also setup a macro for weapons swap on stance switch. I do this with a built in feature in outfitter, but Mozman has a macro for it. This can be found at
WoW Warrior Macros - TheorySpot (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/theory-articles-guides/31899-wow-warrior-macros.html)

Now as a warrior you must utilize all of your tools to shutdown the other team. If they have a healer, you can completely lock him down for at least 30 seconds at some point in the fight. When you see him casting a heal, pummel the first one. Then run out to range and intercept back in when he starts casting his heal again. Once the stun wears off and he heals again you can pummel again. When he begins to heal again blow your intim shout on him. When he gets out of that, pummel him one more time. Finally intercept one more time if needed. By that point unless he is a paladin who bubbled, you have probably won the match.

Another excellent trick is to wait until both the opposing players are together. If you are killing their dps, you can either pop off him for a well timed pummel, or use intimidating shout to fear both of them. Too few warriors use things like demo shout, piercing howl, and sunder armor properly. Each of these can frustrate opposing teams and destroy their game plan. Demo shout reduces how much they hit for. Piercing howl if used in the right place can slow an entire arena team, allowing your players to kite them away. Sunder armor is huge if you get into a mirror match battle. It is a much more efficient rage dump than heroic strike. As a side note you can sunder in zerk stance. Very few warriors think to sunder up the opposing warrior in such a match. Even fewer think to sunder warlocks or priests. This can be a huge mistake. The sunders allow you to out dps their warrior even if he out gears you. On a warlock the MS + sunders basically allows you to out dps the incoming heals. One break on the heals and that lock is toast.

Sweeping strikes is now usable in zerk stance. If you can get a group of the enemy together, use this ability. If you use it with cleave you are guarunteed double damage on your targets. It seems to be a bit buggy with whirlwind, but use whirlwind with it also for lots of pretty numbers. This provides a ton of burst damage to multiple targets. If the opposing healers aren't on the ball, you can work down two players simultaneously. If they only focus on healing one, you can quickly target the other and kill him before they can react.

Lastly, use intervene if you or your teammate gets in trouble. This is a skill used by too few warriors. It can pull you out of line of site of their dps, provide a quick respite to a beleaguered teammate, or pull you back to your healers if you get too far ahead. Arena is a dynamic game where every second counts; every mistake can be a loss. You win by minimizing your mistakes, and maximizing how you interact with your team.

B. 2v2 arena

If you enter 2v2 arena planning on being the best, you need to consider class makeup first. There are many class compositions that can work, but there are only a few that usually push into the high level brackets. There are other groups that can work, but these are the ones I have seen be most effective. Many warriors do well with either a paladin or druid paired with them. 2s is all about smart play. A single mistake often makes or breaks the game.

a. Warrior/Druid
This is one of the most dynamic pairings in the game. A skilled druid can wreak havoc on an opposing team. They can cyclone, root, feral charge, and kite better than any other healer. The best part is that they can heal you with hots while they are doing all of that. This allows you as a warrior to play your game without worrying about your healer. That said, you should still hamstring or stun the opposing dps to make it easier on your teammate.

b. Warrior Paladin
The paladin warrior pair is one of the most feared combos in the game. They are the perfect complements to each other. The paladin provides you with blessing of freedom, at least 10 seconds of uninterrupted heals, almost limitless heals, and they wear plate.

C. 3v3 Arena

3v3 is a bit more forgiving on class makeup. There are several teams that work very well together. Most high level teams fall into two categories. The “scrub” team, two healers and a warrior or a warrior, one dps, and a paladin. Depending on how you utilize them, both makeups can be deadly in arena. Truth be told there is no such thing as a “scrub team.” There are only winners and losers.

a. Warrior, Ice Mage, Paladin

This combo can be extremely strong. It was used by Powertrip in the early WSVG days with devastating success. It gives you great damage, and great control over the match. This is the ultimate option combo. Your ice mage can easily shut down two players on the opposing team at a time.

b. Warrior, Elemental Sham, Paladin

This is a devastating damage combo. The elemental shaman has purge for bop, bloodlust, windfury, and amazing damage of their own. This team is not a finesse grouping. They are the ultimate brute force in arena with the highest burst damage potential in the game.

c. Warrior, Lock. Paladin

Warlocks are a very strong class by themselves. If you pair them with the warrior paladin combo, good things happen. In this setup the warlock usually serves as a “tank.” Through drain life, amazing health, and stacked resilience, they are near impossible to kill quickly. In addition they provide excellent damage and cc through dots, fears, spellocks, and pet damage.

d. Warrior, Resto Sham, Paladin

My all time favorite threes combo. This is the combo I ran to get my Gladiator title in threes. To run this correctly, you need an extremely geared warrior since he is the sole damage dealer. The shaman usually tanks to damage while earth shocking their healer and providing the warrior with windfury. In addition he can also heal the heck out of himself if needs be.

e. Warrior, Priest, Paladin

I have seen this combo be effective, but I do not think it is quite on the level with the other setups. In this combo, the priest attempts to tank damage while mana draining the opposing teams healers. If the paladin can keep the priest alive it can be very effective, but the warrior must work very hard to put out great damage. He lacks the windfury of the group makeup d.

f. Warrior, Druid, Paladin

Druids are an amazing class. A skilled druid can effectively shut down an entire threes team. This combo relies completely on how strong their druid is. He can cyclone, root, heal through hots, and if played correctly is untouchable. They can out kite or los any class in game and have a snack while doing it.

g. Warrior, Warrior, Shaman

This combo has the potential for great damage, but lacks control. The two warriors combined with windfury is terrifying, but they are easily ccable and have little cc of their own. This combo absolutely must kill someone within the first minute, or they are done.

h. Warrior, Disc Priest, Resto Druid

This is the class makeup I ran to get Gladiator in season 2. We easily coasted to a 2300 rating and had the potential to climb much higher. The warrior provides damage, ms, and debuffs on the opponents. The priest tanks and mana burns. The druid provides unparreled cc and healing. The true power of this team however lies in drinking. It is extremely easy for the druid to drink with this makeup b/c every one focuses the priest. The priest sucks away all the enemy's mana. Unfortunately my druid had to move on to bigger and better things so unless I find a new one(and finding on that good would be a chore,) I won't get to push this makeup to it's potential. I truelly believe it could be a prospect for #1 in any battlegroup.

D. 5v5 Arena

5v5 arena is the most dynamic, challenging, and all around fun arena. It is the ultimate test of teamwork and innovation. 5v5 teams usually fall into three categories. These are 4 dps teams, 3 dps teams, or for warriors 2 dps teams. Each setup has it’s own unique challenges and weaknesses.

a. The 4 dps team

The 4 dps team has become very popular in season two arena. This makeup provides unhealable dps. It functions on the premise of the quick kill. These teams focus fire to achieve domination. They usually focus either the warrior or priest on the opposing team and kill them within the first 20 seconds of the match. If they are unable to do this, they usually end up losing. If you plan to use this combo, you need to have one player that every one assist on. You usually cc one or two of the opposing team, then turn and burn. This team has one fear; 3 healer two warrior teams. It is excellent for taking out the cookie cutter 3 dps, 2 healer teams. Also since resilience is capped at 490 this team makeup will only get better as gear improves. Their damage will increase while the other team’s resilience cannot.

b. 3 dps, two healer teams

This is the cookie cutter makeup of arena. This makeup was extremely popular in arena one and has proven to be very strong in season two as well. This makeups strength relies on options. They usually have strong cc in the form of an ice mage or warlock. In addition, many have an elemental shaman for the added burst of bloodlust. The two healers are near impossible to lock down completely. Most teams focus on killing this team’s priest first. If left alone, not only does the priest heal, but he focuses on mana draining the opposing team’s healers. Many of these teams use the warrior to work down one target while the other two dps kill another. This is particularly effective on 4 dps teams.

c. 2 warrior, 3 healer teams

I’m not a fan of this combo, but it does have its strengths. It is the bane of the 4 dps team. A cookie cutter makeup of this setup would be 2 ms warriors, one resto shaman, and two paladins. The paladins make the warriors virtually impossible to cc. The shaman provides windfury to the warriors, grounding totems for enemy spells, and usually ends up tanking the match as well. What makes this team so strong is that with windfury the two warriors can nearly match a 3 dps teams damage output, but every one on the team is near impossible to kill due to the 3 healers.

The end

That’s all I have for now. In conclusion, remember that arena is a dynamic game that focus’s on teamwork. There are many great warriors out there, many of these can’t even break 2k. If you want to succeed in arena, you must take care of your team, work with your team, and most importantly communicate with you team. There is no I in team.


< Dreasus' Guide for PvP Warriors >

TheorySpot - Dreasus PVP (http://www.tankspot.com/index.php?pageid=DreasusPVPGuide)

< Mozman’s Macros >

WoW Warrior Macros - TheorySpot (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/theory-articles-guides/31899-wow-warrior-macros.html)

10-08-2007, 11:00 AM
Excellent guide, thanks very much.

I know it can be controversial, but what are your thoughts on weapon selection?

10-08-2007, 04:43 PM
I tried a warrior, ele shaman, holy priest combo this week and sadly, fell apart, the shaman didn't burst as well as I had hoped, we got kited or cc'd away from windfury totem, and our priest as usual drops fast. So unless you are clearly outgeared, that's a combo that definitely won't get you into the top brackets.

However, my usual 3s team is rogue, warrior, priest and it surprisingly does well, with blood frenzy, myself and the rogue can QUICKLY burn down clothies in no time, and if the priest is very fast with Mass Dispel, or keeping us out of CC'd we'd just absolutely destroy teams.

Healers truly make or break teams, druids just seem to be the best since they are so versatile in all aspecs, their healing is perfect for arenas (no cast time wuht?), their kiting is awesome (shift-shape to break all slows and also travel form = instant escape), and if you do catch them, blam bear form until you can get a friend to get em off, not to mention 2 cc's, cyclone and entangling roots.

If any other warriors are having trouble making the best team makeups mentioned here, feel free to ask the kaz's (myself or ganthi) about how to maximize what you got, most teams have something the others don't, for example my 2v2 is with a well geared priest, because of mass dispel, we actually wreak havok against 2v2 pally/warrior teams, one of the most feared teams out there. Its about me helping my priest out (hamstrung warrior = safe priest), and timing our fears.

to brain9h, imo, all 3 specs are awesome. Don't care what anyone else tells you. skill can make up for weapons. My great friend is axe spec, with gorehowl... and has 40&#37; crit, check him out on the armory: Kayrina from Akama, he wrecks guys who are in 5/5 merc glad with stormherald.... how? skill. So axe definitely isn't bad, and 5% crit will help you against the resilience people are stacking nowadays, i don't care what their resil is at, even if it reduces your crit damage by 10%, 190% damage on a crit, is more than any form of a white hit. nuff said.

I went the mace spec because I think stunning people with imp slam is a quick way to toss out 6k+ damage. Its getting nerfed next patch of course so you may be weary but a stun is a stun, 5%, 10%, 15% if i stun you, you're in for some hurt.

And of course there's sword spec, the merc glad sword is awesome, its got resil, its got stats, its got damage, its got good speed (not as good as DT/SH but hey its at least over 3.5), and it has highest potential to explode on some poor kid. When it procs off, you devastate and destroy people before they know what hit them, when it doesn't, you're basically in the same boat as a mace spec that can't stun.

Mace = stun = shutdown player + potential for damage
Sword = proc = HUGE, i'm talking more than any other spec, damage
Axe = static gain, you always have the 5% crit, no waits for procs, no potential this, no if that, you have more crit, and when you crit, its gonna hurt.

If you're an orc, axe doubles for your skill racial!

10-09-2007, 06:16 AM
Brain, specs are always an interesting debate. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Mace spec is king currently, especially with stormherald, is huge in the 2s and 3s. It also is quite good in 5s. The stun is nothing to laugh at. Sword spec provides excellent burst damage. It is the best damage spec in arena. Axe spec provides more sustained damage. The 5% crit helps offset the crit lost to resilience, but it does still suffer the penalty from the size of the crit.
There are a few things that you need to look at in the future. Mace spec is supposedly going to take a nerf. The stormherald/mace spec combo is a bit overpowered at this point. In true Blizzard fashion, they are going to nerf the spec, not the weapon. This hurts all mace warriors not just the ones with skillherald..:)
Axe spec was great in season one. However it also has slowly taken a nerf. Resilience destroys this spec. Not only does it lower the amount you crit, but it also lowers the size of that crit. As an axe spec warrior, I still do great damage, but it has slowly been reduced as people picked up more resilience.
Sword spec looks like it will remain the same. Because of this, I will be going sword spec in season three. It is the only spec not taking a hit, and I have seen some amazing sword warriors out there on the battlefield.
Remember there is no right or wrong on which spec you choose. They can all get the job done. It is more what will fit with you team, and how you want to play.


10-09-2007, 08:40 AM
Thanks guys. I went mace because in my view the warrior plays a secondary role as damage output, with his primary role being debuffing, stunning, disabling the healer, and so on. So stun was logical (I play 5x5 mostly), and I crafted Deep Thunder, now working on stormherald. Also I can always get my hand on a Gorehowl if the nerf is too much :D

10-10-2007, 02:07 AM
I was an axe spec warrior in S1 and up until mid S2, and I can completely agree with Kaz, resilience definitly killed the spec. I've picked up a Merc sword, and having tasted what swords have to offer, I'm planning on staying swords for S3 and I'm never looking back at axes.

Also, very nice guide, may not have been too helpful for me, but I'm sure that will be to any new warrior that want to start the Arena game, and that's what it's prolly aimed at, good job Kaz.

11-28-2007, 10:51 AM
Hey Kaz...

If I were to be in a druid/warrior 2v2 team, what spec would you suggest for the druid? Just curious...

thanks ahead of time!

11-29-2007, 09:06 AM

Resto druid is a must if you plan to run that combo. I do not know the exact spec, but you may want to armory Hafu. She is one of the best resto druids in game at the moment.


11-29-2007, 09:30 AM
Cool Kaz. Thanks

12-04-2007, 10:27 AM
god your guide was helpful thank you, I just got my warrior to 70 and am just starting out in arena grinding the hell out of AV at the moment so I can get better gear but I don't have the time to run heroics for the nether and already bought the 2h mace from S1 arena from honor is that bad to use with mace spec because the way it sounds is that if I don't have DP or SH then I'm gimped granted I see the obvious that I will stun more often with DP or SH but did I hurt myself that bad by going Maces with a mace that doesn't have a stun proc? and should I switch to swords I'm mostly doing only 2v2 and 3v3 at this time but want to get a 5v5 does that proc make that much of a difference I mean I know its small things that can change a battle but I dunno just wondering if I should have gotten the S1 sword *sigh* /boggle


12-10-2007, 04:21 PM
Updated 12/10/07. Thanks for the support and replies.

Precious, you may want to run kara for badges. With a good group you can clear kara in 3 hours and that is 22 badges. I may get shot for saying this, but mace spec is probably a little bit better for most warriors than swords. Sword spec seems to be strongest in a burn setting such as a 4 dps team. Mace spec fits in better with 1v1, 2v2, maybe not 3v3, and 2345 5s teams. In the end it will really depend on you, and how you want to play. I'm sticking to sword for now.

12-10-2007, 10:58 PM
Great guide KAZ!

I'm not a huge pvp'er but I find it a lot of fun. This season I am running with a resto druid or disc priest. The problem is, they have very little resilience, which makes them super squishy to certain classes.

Here's something I wanted some input from you. For 2s, do you use focus targeting at all? Like for example you are up against a healer/dps team, do you set focus on the healer before you engage so you can see if he is casting a heal and know when to say intercept? I am trying to figure out the little quirks that warriors can do to get an edge.

Another thing is I am torn between axe and mace weapons. I have the axe from Gorefiend and Deep Thunder. Which to use?

12-11-2007, 08:37 AM
I'm not sure how frequently focus is used, I don't really see it in any videos. Then again, I haven't seen that many videos.

I can predict that if someone is highly-disciplined they could certainly derive some benefit from scanning their self, target and focus bars simultaneously, while saving enough rage every 10 seconds to use that knowledge and reflect key spells.

Does it make that much of a difference? Probably not as much as having good gear, playing with a partner of a highly complimentary class (preferably also highly-geared) and knowing what to do and when to do it (none of these three elements describes me personally, it's just speculation based on observation, and I'll probably get called on some faulty logic :P).

Of course I could be wrong - I only started playing with the focus bar about a week before S3 came out, and I don't play nearly enough to have realized its full effects by now.

Regarding weapons, according to current thought, axes are considered inferior to swords and maces due to the reduction in axe damage dealt caused by high resilience. However, it's mostly a matter of number crunching and luck with stun procs, so while most players will suggest you use Deep Thunder over Gorefiend, I'm going to say it doesn't make a huge difference relative to the stuff I talked about above.

12-11-2007, 08:23 PM
Score and score Daik...couldn't have said it better myself. Go axe if you want to pve...go mace or sword for pvp.


12-29-2007, 06:10 PM
What would you suggest for a build for doing 2's with a Rogue (I want to be sword spec also).


01-02-2008, 09:32 AM
Sparta, double dps with a rogue would be a tough makeup to run. If you want to try it, I suggest you both go maces. The stuns from both of you could be devastating. However in general I don't see it being a viable combo.


01-02-2008, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the guide Kaz, was a big help. I've been using the flurry build with my Lionheart. Seems to work pretty well.

01-30-2008, 11:37 AM
Interestingly, I think you've overlooked the 3v3 combo that went merciless in Nightfall battle group:

War-Disc Priest-Resto Shaman

This is, in theory, more powerful than replacing the priest with a paladin. Why? A warrior scales better than any other class, and no better combination exists for facilitating the warrior. Shaman totems and purges combined with both defensive and offensive dispels of the priest make your warrior an unstoppable killing machine. The mana burning capacity of the priest is a nice perk as well, since the shaman can main heal during that time. Combined with the fact that you shouldn't be able to kill anyone on a team with 2 healers, and that a warrior provides endless DPS, and you've got a winner.


I have difficulty understanding the synergy with war-elem sham-paladin. An elemental shaman is extremely fragile, yielding high burst/short term efficiency, whereas the paladin and warrior represent infinte healing and damage respectively. This seems like a mismatch to me. And I mean sure, 3 good players shouldn't have any trouble running the combo to 2k rating... but I wouldn't put it in my top list of 3v3 combos for a warrior.

Another combo to add to your list is the following: War-Ret Pal-Dru. I know it sounds silly, but wow can they lay someone out.

My top 3 for 'serious' 3v3 consist of the following (in no particular order):

War-R Sham-D Priest

01-31-2008, 11:06 AM

I'd agree with you that that combo would be good. However, I never ran into it in my battles. The list was getting a bit long on 3s so I stuck with what I knew would work. In theory you can make any combo can work if people have great teamwork and synergy. I have however faced the ret pali team. I'm not a fan myself, but I have seen it work..even against me.

The reason that ele sham, war, pali does so well is the burst. Most times the effectively kill one target without the other team being able to stop them. Then is to 2v3 and even a fragile player can survive 1 dps or 2 dps with no healer. He just starts healing himself. It was more effective in season 1 than in season 3 due to higher resilience targets.

In all, very good points Chis. There is no correct or perfect team. There is perfect teamwork. As long as arena progresses, new combos will become counters to old combos. It's the nature of the game. When I started arena in season 1 we ran resto sham, holy pali, ms war all the way to the top ten of the battlegroup. In season 2 this changed to resto druid, disc priest, ms war. I'm still running that combo now, but we are also experimenting with resto sham, resto druid, war, and hunter, ms war, resto druid. Things will keep changing and this guide is just that, a guide. I will try and keep things as updated as I can..:)


03-03-2008, 08:09 PM
Just reading through this thread again. I've heard a lot of people bemoaning the Warrior/Paladin nerf of late. Is there truth to this?

03-04-2008, 07:35 AM
Well, war/pali has definately lost a lot of strength. The makeup can still do well, but it is far easier to run with war/druid. The druid has better cc, can escape better, hots, and can drink easier. Pali's have no hots, are easily interrupted, weak cc when compared to a druid.

03-13-2008, 04:49 PM
Great Guide =D

I Found a site that listed the top arena team set ups and I was wondering why you didn't go more in depth in 5's teams.

Arena Team Setup Statistics - World of Warcraft Realm History (http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-statistics/team-setup.html)

According to that as I look at it(2k Viable teams):


Arms Warrior/Resto Druid
Arms Warrior/ Holy Pally
Arms Warrior/ Resto Shaman


Arms Warrior/Resto or ele shaman/ Either ret or holy pally
Arms Warrior/Resto Druid/ Sub Rogue
Arms Warrior/resto druid/ SL/SL Lock
Arms Warrior/Resto druid/ ret or holy pally (Not sure)
Arms Warrior/ Frost Mage/ Holy Pally
Arms Warrior/ SL/SL lock/ Holy Pally
Arms Warrior/ Disc Priest/ Holy pally
Arms Warrior/ Arms Warrior/ Resto shaman
Arms Warrior/ Disc Priest/ resto druid


Arms Warrior/Holy Pally/Disc Priest/ele shaman/ Frost Mage
Arms Warrior/Holy Pally/Disc Priest/ele shaman/ Felguard Lock
Arms Warrior/Holy Pally/Disc Priest/ Marks Hunter/ Felguard Lock
Arms Warrior/Holy Pally/Disc Priest/ Marks hunter/ ele shaman
Arms Warrior/Holy Pally/Disc Priest/ Marks hunter/ Frost mage
Arms Warrior/Holy Pally/Disc Priest/ Frost Mage/ felguard Lock
Arms Warrior/Holy Pally/Disc Priest/ ehn Shaman/ Sub Rogue
Arms Warrior/Holy pally/ Disc Priest/ ele shaman/ Balance Druid
Arms Warrior/ Holy pally/ resto druid/ Felguard Lock/ frost mage

(? are the specs right)

Those are as of April 24th. They change as more teams enter those brackets and change the Percents.

What I was asking is if you could maybe add those to your arena set-ups part of your guide and give them a description. I think this would help improve your already awesome guide.

03-17-2008, 07:34 AM
I really didn't want to get into too much depth on 5s when I wrote the guide. The reason being that there are so many different combos that can be run effectively. At some point I may attempt to tackle this, but it is really quite a challenge..:)


03-28-2008, 09:14 AM

I am very happy I found this site, and hoping that I never run into you :)

I am also hoping you have ideas on key binding. I desperately want to get away from being a clicker, but want to try out key binding strats that people already use instead of painfully developing them on my own. Any ideas?


03-28-2008, 01:44 PM
I'm somewhat interested in seeing how well a warrior/resto shaman can do in the 2's. The main weaknesses I can see is that there's no real breaks from CC's or CC's of your own. A couple cyclones on the shammy and the warrior would be burned. Still, I'll probably give it a whirl, simply because a friend of mine wants to get into arenas and pick up a healing set for his shammy. Me? I'm just trying to learn to get better.

03-29-2008, 07:15 PM
Cy, keybinding is usually pretty different person to person. My best advice is setup all of your abilities bound to a key. Make the long cooldowns ones shift/key. That way there is less of a chance that you accidently use a long cooldown at a bad time. After that, it just takes practice and getting used to your setup. Once you have played a set keybinding pattern for a few weeks, it becomes second nature. Make sure you bind your stance changes.

Cay- Go to WarcraftMovies.com - World of Warcraft Movies (http://www.warcraftmovies.com). Look up Jedden. I also have one of his videos in our movie of the week thread. He runs resto sham/war and ranks up at 2300. His videos are very well done also. The cc vulnerability is there, but there are ways around it.


03-29-2008, 08:18 PM
Thanks, Kaz - but I am curious what you do - or what anyone else does?

I have tried binding keys, but I don't think I did it well - and that's why I still click. Had trouble with movement keys and whatnot.

Specifically, I suppose the issues were with keys around the movement keys (I use EDSF for mvmt). If I were to get rid of the movement keys, I am concerned about my ability to move backwards. :)

I looked here - Warrior tactics - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Warrior_tactics#Warrior_Keybindings) - how does that look?

03-30-2008, 03:48 PM
The keys look ok on there...other than the esdf for movement. Move and turn with your mouse. I move forward by holding both mouse buttons down. I turn using my mouse, and I strafe using the two buttons on the left side of my mouse. I have b bound for backwards. Basically when I'm playing, I can move forwards, use any ability I have rage for, and spin or change directions while doing all of the above. If I need to backup, I just release the two mouse buttons and press b. The b thing is a bit odd and cumbersome, but it's the best way I have found yet. If I had a different mouse with more buttons, I'd have it on the mouse also.

edit- it won't work well for a couple of weeks until you become familiar with the keys. However once you do, you will wonder how you ever did without them. You will also be able to pick out the people that click just by watching how their player moves.


03-30-2008, 04:00 PM
Personally, I'd think that using the mouse to that degree would be a bit tedious. I've found that using WS (or, in this case, ED) for forwards and backwards, turning with the mouse while holding the right mouse button, and then AD/SF or QE/WR for strafing to be a bit more functional. That also leaves you able to use the back/forward buttons on your mouse for abilities, and doesn't require you to keep both your mouse fingers clamped down constantly, while still retaining the mobility.

03-31-2008, 01:05 AM
there's a keybinding thread here, I've layed out my keys there too, i primarily rely upon 1-6 and alt 1-6 and ctrl 1-6 while mouse turning, and utilizing z and x as additional keys. Definitely learn the basics:
1) mouse turn. do this asap.
2) keybind everything you can. absolutely do it, there's no excuse not to. bind keys you will use the most closest to your resting hand position (in my case its AWSD, so z is hamstring 5 is mortal strike). if i'm moving forward with W pressed by my middle finger my ring finger is able to hit z for hamstrings, and my pointer finger can easily hit 5 for mortal strike. likewise 3, 4 and 6 are easily hit with the same finger, and 1 and 2 can be hit by my ring finger as well (2 is bound to Sunder armor). All the while, my thumb is curved down over the alt key so i can hit alt 1-6 anytime i need, and my pinky can quickly hit ctrl 1-6 as well, although this move is a bit harder to retain full awsd control so i bound it to my stances and trinket pops, something that needs to be bound, but not hit quite as often.

my other not so often skills are bound to 7-0 and alt 7-0, and its something I personally am good at but can understand is a crutch to most people, is that i can quickly use my right hand, free of the mouse, to hit any of these keys. something I have just learned from time. (Not recommended). If you can, I'd much rather you bind these as shift 1-6 keys instead.

Hope this helps a bit.

04-07-2008, 09:17 AM
OK, the keybinding has definitely helped me - I am killing with far greater ease. However, I am having 1 problem still. I am having trouble targeting people without clicking on them. It's especially tough to click on a sprinting rogue. I use the TAB key but it doesn't always work. Any ideas?

04-07-2008, 09:22 AM
OK, the keybinding has definitely helped me - I am killing with far greater ease. However, I am 1 problem still. I am having trouble targeting people without clicking on them. It's especially tough to click on a sprinting rogue. I use the TAB key but it doesn't always work. Any ideas?

For pvp the only think i can think of it's to make a macro for Intercept on mouseover, other than that, i keep using tab for targeting

04-07-2008, 03:46 PM
I used tab target but I bound mine to s. I rarely had a problem, it I did I usually just hit my assist another dps macro. (/assist name of teamate) bound to a key. Mine was shift d. To warn ya'll, I've retired from wow now. I'll still give advice where I think I'm capable, but summer is here and I'm going outside. Good luck in your gaming and may your rage never end..:)


04-19-2008, 07:06 AM
Anyone have any ideas for big group combat? When I am in a large group of milling players, it's difficult to do anything but point and click on a player, and that's a huge downer, since the clicking usually makes for a big delay. Of course, hitting retaliation or recklessness and whirlwind is nice... :)

04-21-2008, 01:54 PM
Most arena warriors are now Sword spec. It's the new thing with Season 3. Bye Bye maces warriors here comes burst DPS! ;)

In a more serious note, I would like to /bow to Hafu, the best resto druid those days!

04-21-2008, 02:23 PM
That's not necessarily true, Maces are still probably more dominant in terms of the control it provides than swords. Its true most warriors you know of might be swords, but the top teams I find are still going Maces. I'll be making the switch once I get enough points.

04-25-2008, 04:26 AM
It seems like from a soloing/BG perspective, swords might be good, but I can't tell you how often my stun proc'd against a rogue hammering my friend the mage, giving him time to get away, or interrupted a key heal or frostbolt. I'm sure the crit from the extra sword proc might do the same thing, but I have been loving my mace so far.

Still looking for an answer on picking targets out of a crowd. :)

05-03-2008, 02:02 PM
Enjoy your time outside, Kaz! Your guide has become an invaluable tool for me, and you will be missed.

06-30-2008, 07:26 AM
option d. under 3's... I'm curious if Kaz or someone else could expand on the pally role. Its a Resto shaman, MS warrior + Pally... I know good ret pallies, good holy pallies and good prot pallies.

what is the pally role in this combo?

I've spent a lot of time in the 1700's in all 3 formats across all 3 seasons, and I really am looking for a new combo.


06-30-2008, 07:46 AM
option d. under 3's... I'm curious if Kaz or someone else could expand on the pally role. Its a Resto shaman, MS warrior + Pally... I know good ret pallies, good holy pallies and good prot pallies.

what is the pally role in this combo?

I've spent a lot of time in the 1700's in all 3 formats across all 3 seasons, and I really am looking for a new combo.


For this is is generally a holy pally or ret pally, they both have their strengths

06-30-2008, 08:13 AM
Lets say I'm running with a low resilience resto shammy. Which role would I want the Pally to play while waiting for the shammy to fix the (200ish) res?

06-30-2008, 08:32 AM
I wanted to post again - I've had a chance to arena and BG more since my original posts...

Warrior builds have been of interest to me. I have tried the mixed arms/fury builds (35/25/3 et. al.) and the full arms builds. My own style has benefited from the awesome rage generation of the full arms builds, coupling the health regen abilities along with tactical mastery. I like to switch and pummel, intercept, but continue to have good rage for debuffs and non-white damage skills.

I suppose that's just what works for me, but now that I am s2/s3 geared, it seems to me that what you choose for your warr build should depend on your own style of playing.

06-30-2008, 08:37 AM
Lets say I'm running with a low resilience resto shammy. Which role would I want the Pally to play while waiting for the shammy to fix the (200ish) res?

Well if you find a good holy pally that would help the most imo.

He could help cover the shamans weaker heals with his, and having a double healer team usually allows drinking unless the other team is being very careful. This would generally outlast the other team in an arena due to the fact that the other team might only have one healer making them stay alert, and they have half the mana pool that your team does, plus it would be harder for them to get a drink off.

07-01-2008, 08:19 PM
Ok...so our teammates die and it's just me (arms mace generic spec) and a resto druid left. How do I kill him?

This is what I do now: leave arena after about 10 min of boring chasing :-(

07-01-2008, 09:04 PM
sadly they should win, because they can basically just moonfire you, and keep themselves at 100% with hots.

1 on 1 unless you have 100 rage and catch them in rage with all your cds still up, you won't get the kill. But lets propose you have all those. what you want to do is get ms up on them right away and keep it up, make em waste mana, and stick to them always so they can't drink, hamstring a lot, and hope for a mace stun, when it happens, unload, if he starts to get away, intercept and hamstring again, keep the pressure, trinket out of 5 second cyclones or full duration roots, if its any shorter just wait em out, it's not worth wasting 2 minute cds. If you can get him to 50% or so, you gotta just unload, blow intercept, keep him near you, if he gets away, fear him, get back on him, sunder him up and keep him that way, sure he'll be in bear form but he can't heal in that form and each shift will cost him mana.

Other than that, I can't really help ya, it's like a 90% chance win in his favor =T

07-02-2008, 04:47 AM
Warriors against healers is a tough matchup I think, though not as much if they're squishy. Whether it's dealing with HOTs or PWS or the damn pally bubble, it's tough to deal with healers without a stun. Sure, we have the 3 interrupts - pummel, intercept, and intim shout, but IS doesn't always work, and I am seeing more healers trinket out of my hamstring!

I have been thinking about going BS to get Stormherald. That plus mace spec looks yummy. However we deal with them, it seems more important to have good teammates. I run with a hunter for fun 2v2, and we're not great - all dps and not much else (and he's raid spec'd to boot!), but when I run with my frost mage or ret pally friend, it's a lot different.

I believe our function is all about debuffing opponents (MS, sunder, dem shout), movement impairing (ham), and limited CC/interrupt, and some dps, though, against inexperienced opponents, the sight of an armored warrior constantly in your face, making casting tough, seems daunting.

In my 3v3 last week, we faced a resto druid, lock, warrior, with us running holy pally, frostie, and me. We barely won - we took the lock down first after ditching his soul linked pet, then got the druid, but the warrior kept our mage from doing a ton other than run away from him, essentially kite-tanking him around :)

07-08-2008, 06:08 AM
Ok...so our teammates die and it's just me (arms mace generic spec) and a resto druid left. How do I kill him?

This is what I do now: leave arena after about 10 min of boring chasing :-(

You should win this. Completely sunder the druid. Keep MS up at all times. Pummel any cyclone he does. Save your trinket for when he bashes you in bear form(he will.) As soon as he does he will usually pop into caster form to cyclone you. Pummel the cyclone...he will then either go bear in which case you just slowly work him down, or if he's bad he will go travel form. If he goes travel...intercept him. You should have a near full rage bar on a fully sundered target. MS...WW..Heroic...execute. As long as you save your intercept for stunning him in caster or travel form, a druid is pretty squishy. If you manage to get rooted in place, try to reflect a cyclone or wrath back at him. It will make him think twice before every root/cyclone.


07-08-2008, 09:31 AM
You should win this. Completely sunder the druid. Keep MS up at all times. Pummel any cyclone he does. Save your trinket for when he bashes you in bear form(he will.) As soon as he does he will usually pop into caster form to cyclone you. Pummel the cyclone...he will then either go bear in which case you just slowly work him down, or if he's bad he will go travel form. If he goes travel...intercept him. You should have a near full rage bar on a fully sundered target. MS...WW..Heroic...execute. As long as you save your intercept for stunning him in caster or travel form, a druid is pretty squishy. If you manage to get rooted in place, try to reflect a cyclone or wrath back at him. It will make him think twice before every root/cyclone.


This is why this Kaz is a Glad and Kaze(myself) is only a Duelist. <3

I'm really slow on pummels, so I get wrecked by cyclone a lot.

OH and 1 trick that I've found pretty important! Throw your range slot! Like seriously, if he roots you out of melee, start chucking axes! Whether it's just to annoy him or even for a potential kill, it can matter. I've killed many mages with a thrown weapon, and have kept a druid in combat that extra 1-2 seconds by throwing at him and critting him, proc'ing deep wounds (i think?).

07-08-2008, 11:58 AM
Here's a question. I met an enhance shammy that was killing everyone in a WSG recently. I tried fighting him in zerk (bad idea), battle (sl. better) and defensive - got wrecked in all. I disarmed him, sundered him, kept MS up, Demo'd him...nothing. He finished me easily every time, even when I rushed him once when he was at half health.

Are enhance shammies that much better than us if geared? He was slightly better geared than me (I have a mix of seasons 1-3).

07-08-2008, 03:43 PM
short answer: Yes

Long Answer: Hell yes, but if you can zerg his ass with 2 or 3 more, you can take him out quickly

07-09-2008, 05:21 AM
Disarming him works. Also if his gear is that much better than yours....stun him as much as possible. Intercept him on every cooldown. But yeah, it just sounds like he really outgears you. Also since enhance shamans aren't big dodgers...I'd stance dance, but mostly stay in zerk.


07-09-2008, 09:22 AM
keep him debuffed too, especially tclap.

08-14-2009, 05:46 PM
f.y.i. the build links don't work. it just loads blank talent trees.

08-15-2009, 04:35 PM
This is an old guide.

08-16-2009, 02:25 PM
please look at the date of the original post...this was over a year ago during bc so the talent builds wont work anymore.