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Sangi
10-01-2007, 11:19 AM
My wife has recently started a semi-casual raiding guild. While we have been short on healers we have made decent karazhan progress in the 4 weeks there. Until now we have been mostly friends and /roll on gear with a lot of passing of people to those most in need. As we start to bring more people in we would like to do something a bit more structured. I've looked over the standard DKP, NULL-DKP systems and both have their issues. We were in a guild that did officer based loot but that had a perception to us of being unfair as we saw the same 10 people or so always get loot. We would like to adopt something that rewards those working on progression as much as those coming for the bosses that we always down.

What kinds of systems does your guild use for loot?

Kazeyonoma
10-01-2007, 11:29 AM
for karazhan, me and my other raid leader personally do raid council, and try to take into account every aspect possible.

Times run, period of last upgrade, dedication to the raid week after week, and of course how big of an upgrade.

With very few exceptions, we almost always, ask those who want the item to post their current item in that slot they are using.

If it is their main role (healer rolling on healing gear), then we decide based on biggest need. Only if the person who is in bigger need happen to be a first timer, while the other has been in our raid 10 weeks in a row with no upgrade, or something do we give it to the lesser needy person. If there is no direct spec people who need it, then we let off spec's roll on it.

Lavache
10-01-2007, 11:38 AM
suicide kings is a very fair system that works well with casual groups. there is a very informative post on the wow forum about most systems.


WoW Forums -> Guild Loot Distribution Systems (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=833BC0B0DDACF70335801220457 97868?topicId=14733001&sid=1)

Mcgarrett
10-01-2007, 01:17 PM
I find zero-sum DKP to be the fairest way to distribute loot.

/random sucks. My own personal misery in that every /random since July I've lost. Every single one. Strange, but since I've not missed a raid, and I finish #1 in DPS everytime, I'm the main assist for the group, and work my arse off every raid, I find /random to be one of the most unfair ways to distribute loot in a raid environment.

And please take this to heart. Raids are NOT heroics, or 5 mans. They are a coordinated, repetitive, costly endeavor for those that show up to wipe and wipe and wipe to learn the fight. A sub has not put in the same effort as a regular and does not deserve equal footing just because he showed up once or twice after you'd already learned the encounter. (Just my opinion. Yours may differ.)

Raid Council could be extremely fair. It could be run by great people who really understand the game, and know the ins-and-outs of loot, and make reasonable decisions on loot. However, even if it was run by god, jesus, and mother teresa, it still leaves you open the to perception of bias and favoritism. Some people will just always assume the worst if the decision doesn't go their way.

If you're fine with this responsibility, and your "raid council" is fully informed on spec differences etc, you may enjoy it.

I have not been in a straight up DKP scenario, so I cannot comment on it.

Regarding zero-sum dkp. I find it the most equitable because it ensures everyone gets a turn at the trough. It does allow for negative balances, and prevents people from earning unsurmountable DKP leads.

There is no random chance, no favoritism, no interpretation. If you have the most DKP you win. You essentially pay all the other people in the raid with an equal amount of the dkp in the raid. Your dkp goes down, everyone else's goes up by a relative amount. Thus no one can continually buy upgrades without eventually falling behind. But as the others spend their dkp, he'll rise again.

The other benefit to this is it spread the upgrades around the raid group. Everyone gets better at an even pace.

zdkp does have its negatives. Any system will. But for eliminating loot issues, and making things work themselves out zdkp is my choice.

nethervoid
10-02-2007, 08:28 AM
I don't like to leave fairness to chance, so I also like running zero sum DKP. It's mathmatically the most fair system, leaving nothing up to chance or perception. IMO, the best way to manage any kind of organization is to have everything mathmatically and logically fair, so that there really can be no argument against the system or drama.

The poster above summarized the system very well.

Adonra
10-02-2007, 10:14 AM
SWAPS is another great casual loot system. There is an addon which keeps track of everything for you and you can upload your addon output to their website if you need to.

http://www.boomchucka.com:8080/Uplink/