View Full Version : Tankspot, please help me.

09-18-2007, 06:47 PM
My guild has been having problems lately, an Officer was removed in a rather heated argument with the Guild Leader, myself being an Officer and having known this guy for years.

But after days of all this drama going on the guild leader, whom I have known for years and its really him and i running the guild. Approached me about a possible merger with a guild he used to run with before we were all ready to raid. This guild is trying to set up a second Karazhan group I could MT, but my only reservation is, what about afterwards??

This guild, is led by their Main Tank, as in their Guild Leader is their MT, and it seems to be a pretty stable set-up, very old guild from what I have discovered.

So i come here to ask you, tankspot. Can Raids succeed with more then one Protection Warrior in them without sacrificing too much in the way of dps, and other points?

09-18-2007, 06:53 PM
Our first Karazhan clears were all with two Protection Warriors, before any strategies were made or any real gearing up had been done. It works fine.

However, that's not to say they know it'll work fine.

You guys are planning on running 25-mans in the future?

09-18-2007, 07:02 PM
That depends, i don't forsee my guild honeslty getting that far, there is no "Hive Instinct" Cider you know what i'm talking about, a group of people who are focused one one thing and willing to work together to achieve it. In your videos i see two Warriors (you included) have a Thunderfury, guilds can't pull that off unless everyone is willing to do whatever it takes for progression. What do i have?

A group of people who had no reservations about hitting the dreaded "LFG" button on my a$$ even after all i've done. Its not uncommon for me to spend hours fishing to get "All" of our healers fishsticks, and food for our melee and ranged dps.

I just don't think my veiws are the same as everyone else in the guild, only me and the leader truly want whats best and no one else wants anything but epics. So no Cider, i don't believe my guild will be running 25-mans.

Which is why i come here with the issue of this merger, that guild is already taking shots at Gruul i think, i have a chance to be a MT for a second Karazhan group with (hopefully) likeminded people. But i don't want to be left out of Serpentshrine Cavern and The Eye if in fact we do merge with these guys and get in a position to actually attempt those dungeons.

09-18-2007, 07:06 PM
If it helps, the guild I'm in runs four Prot Warriors, and all of us get a good chance to be in for most content. I'm the least geared and I still see quite a bit of it.

I know for my own part I never dreamed of doing an instance without at least 1 other Protection Warrior who was usually on equal footing with me. Most zones can't be completed without two-three very solid tanks who know each other. Magtheridon will take five if I'm not mistaken.

I wouldn't worry about being left out if you merge, as long as the merger goes well. Hopefully others can give you their experiences too.

09-18-2007, 09:08 PM
I've run Kara with two prot warriors multiple times. It's not really needed or ideal, although it does makes a few fights noticeably easier. You may also want to consider going for a Fury-Prot hybrid spec if group DPS ends up being your main problem.

If you do hit 25-mans, you'll need a bare minimum of three very solid tanks to efficiently get past most bosses and a lot of the trash. Druids and pallies definitely have their place, but in most situations a prot warrior remains the best option in my experience.

I'm sure it varies from one guild to the next, but in a perfect world I would want to gear up three prot warriors for full-time tanking, assuming they'll be available most of the time. More or fewer can work too, depending on your guild's circumstances.

09-18-2007, 10:07 PM
25 mans I run with 2 protection warriors, a Prot pally and a feral druid, Kara is like everyone else has said, doable just not ideal. I would not sweat the merger, so long as your intention to remain a protection warrior and any issues that may arise between the 2 of you are worked out in advance. The problem with alot of mergers are the are done lackluster, and because of that they fail, work out the details ahead of time and everything should be fine.

09-18-2007, 11:33 PM
There's nothing wrong with being the OT when the mobs you're tanking hit just as hard if not harder as every raid boss out there. Don't freak out, you'll get your chance.

We just recruited a far better geared war than myself, but I know when the time comes in 25 mans (Kara isn't the end all and be all of your usefulness), we're going to have to rely on eachother to keep everyone else alive, so I've welcomed him with open arms and we're discussing methods and strats on "oh shit" situations.

09-19-2007, 08:12 AM
I wouldn't worry about it. I would look at the situation with Kara differently. They want to make sure they can raid that night, and assuming you were their MT, they need to set up a replacement ASAP, to ensure the raid still runs as planned. That was good thinking on their part, and it's just one run. I wouldn't take it personally, it was just people running damage control.

As far as your spot in the new guild, I've heard there are enough spots for prot warriors so that prots who want to stay prot don't need to worry. And if you do find it isn't working, you could always find another guild who needs tanks. I don't think it would be really hard to find a guild needing tanks. Hehe

One thing to remember when you merge, it's no longer a guild you and your friend run. Now you are a part of the new guild, and if you don't get an officership in the new guild (which I would find appauling) then you're now just a member and not leadership anymore. You now have to take orders and follow policy. It's hard for people who've been leading to now be led. I know I had a hard time with it when I tried merging my EQ guild (the merge failed BTW).

I would really think about this merger before you do it. Make sure the whole guild wants the merger first, or you could end up just breaking your guild apart, which really just means a few of you are jumping to a new guild, and dissovling the current guild. You can't really call it a merger at that point. lol (this is basically what happened to my EQ guild - We didn't have enough people willing to do the work of the guild to keep it running, but nobody wanted to merge...uh...)

09-26-2007, 12:21 PM
You're experiencing somewhat of the same situation the guild I co-lead.

Since TBC release, my old (and until then ONLY guild since mid-2006) broke up due to the stress of 10/25 man raiding.

From there the majority of the hardcore raiders collected in our current guild, waiting at their chance to get back into 25 man raiding with the right group. We sat for a long time, tested out other guilds to either Co-op or merge with.

It took us 2 guilds to finally settle on the 3rd, whom were part of a rare pre-TBC Naxx raiding guild on the server. They turned out to be the best of the 3.

I am in the same situation as you to a point. I have been the MT for our 1 group 10mans for months. I was prepared to take an OT position just because I wanted to see new content. The reason is, I know raids in end-game stuff need 2-5 protection spec warriors and that as an OT, I'd bet to see as much as anybody else.

Fortunately, for me, I am still the MT of our co-op. But unlike me, I think some warriors are more worried about 'missing out on that first sweet gear drop' from the newest boss kill.

Now from what I read, you're probably going to stick to the MT position due to your loyalty & reliability to the guild. Now you need to ask yourself why you want to be MT. Is it because you're truely looking to not only help yourself see new content, but to aid your guildies in the same venture? Or is it just simply to get that l33t gear and to stop raiding a given instance when you're done with gear, despite other's needs?

Being an MT (or even OT's) come with an obligation to a guild. It surpasses not only playing the game to have fun, but helping your guildies enjoy it too.

09-26-2007, 12:36 PM
Being an MT (or even OT's) come with an obligation to a guild. It surpasses not only playing the game to have fun, but helping your guildies enjoy it too.

Well put man.

09-26-2007, 12:52 PM
I would not worry much about being replaced. It sucks, but it happens to everyone. From 9 to 24 other people have to pause their lives to raid. It's simply unrealistic to expect them all to have the same free time as you.

Some might have kids, or jobs, or spouses to deal with and they've set aside that time to raid. Holding up the raid may have meant some of them might have had to cancel. Should anyone else have had to sit out because of your intermittent connection issues?

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, so please don't my comments that way. All I'm saying is, when large groups of people make specific plans together, if one person has trouble, it's the one person who'll pay the price.

Horacio is my RL in both my raid groups. Beyond that we're friends and hang out together a great deal of time together besides raiding. If I couldn't stay online at the start, or even during the raid, he'd replace me and he'd be right to do so.

As far as your place among the merged guilds goes, I think you'll be fine. If you can do the job, you show up on time, and know the fights, the group will find itself wanting you to tank.

The skill you can learn here if you don't already have it. If you have the skill and still get replaced, then you should move on. If you're devoted to a guild, your return on investment should be near to, or surpass your investment of time, money, and emotion.

Of course, I'm just a lousy rogue so I don't know much. :)

09-26-2007, 01:15 PM
On the part where you were having connection issues and they replaced you: Why are you complaining about this? What do you expect them to do: wait for hours for you to get your connection back? Why would you hol up 9 other people who want to have fun, if youre not able to stay online?

Its not like you were there and they ignored you and pugged someone...you werent able to play so they found a replacement so the raid could continue.

10-01-2007, 01:52 PM
IMO, the competency and gear level vastly outweigh the specific merits of a given tank's class in Kara. Pretty much any makeup of 2 competent tanks seems to work fine in Kara. That being said, you can do most of the zone with 1 tank, making it a moot point if you have adequate dps.

11-08-2007, 01:33 PM
The only issue i see with this, is that a majority of the gear you will use for tanking 25mans for many bosses to come are found inside Karazhan. A tank cannot gear themselves properly (until 2.3) to tank them outside of Karazhan. The plate drops inside are too few and far between. If your guild has any hope at moving beyond it, pugging a new MT because yuor MT cannot be there does not improve progression, it slows it. Without a properly geared MT, your guild will not progress well at all. Do you expect to pug a MT everytime you do gruul because you decided to do the same thing in Kara because your MT could not show up and the item he needed dropped? Respect goes both ways. My guild tried to pug in a new tank one time when we were first starting...they had their mind set on Gruuls lair while the MT (myself) was still in mostly blues and could barely tank prince, then I got shipped out of town for a week on business and told them I would not be back until Friday. They decided to pug the run without me knowing full well that I needed drops from those bosses and had been running for 2 months with no such luck. Tell me how you can say "Thats just tough luck" with the entire guild in mind. Spreading out tank gear among multiple tanks when you do not have one well geared one is not a good idea. Eventually, when most of the tanks are near equally geared, sure spreading the gear out incase the MT decides to bail is a good idea...Until then...its not very wise.