View Full Version : LFGuild and How-to-Raid

09-13-2007, 06:58 PM
The following is an old sticky of mine on Durotan that might be of assistance to new and, to a lesser extent older raiders.

It contains a guide on applying to guilds originally written by Snark of Dead Poets Society and following is a guide on Raiding and Raiding Terms by Karnal of Violent when at The Nothing - now at Turalyon...

If you have tips, hints, additions or criticisms on either topic, feel free to post and I'll try to include them ;)

So, you want to do uber content, looking for a good guild to do it in? Please, before you post any application, read the following tips to greatly increase your acceptability:

Application Process

# Do your homework, take your time and research the guilds available, look to answer the following about each guild:

-Do my playtimes suit their raid schedule?
-Do I have problems w/ any members?
-Are they actively/passively recruiting (especially your class)?
-Are you cool with their looting system?
-Do I meet their requirements of level, gear, etc.
-Will I meet my goals with that guild?

# Before you fill out any application, read the guild's policies first, make sure you agree with them, and are willing to follow them

# Read the application, and fill out each section where required, It still boggles me the number applications I've looked at where people don't fill out the information asked for properly. Not bothering to take the time only shows you don't take it at least somewhat seriously, and will hurt your chances

# Take your time with the application, don't rush it

# Try to use coherent language, preferably a written latin derived language of at least a 4th grade level

# Some guilds have policies about applying to other guilds while taking your application, take them seriously

# Be sure to tell them what you can offer, while this really isn't relevant in most cases, you never know if a guild is short an alchemist or enchanter with good recepies in tow

# Don't pester them about your application, if they don't check their applications, they probobly aren't recruiting anyway. Doing a follow up is acceptable, but try to do it when they are in-flight, not tanking a mob. i.e. ask "is this a good time to talk about my ap?"

# Build some reputation with players of that guild before applying if you are really serious, try to get in their PuGs, PvP groups, to prove you are not a noob, nothing gets you in a guild faster than good references.

# Don't be loot centric, trying to rush to get good gear will only make you appear whiney, and an unfavourable person.

Probation Process

# Some guilds include a probation period following your initial invite (which could be an application guild, or a lower rank in the actual guild itself). This period is like the interview stage where they have seen your credentials, and want to know if you worth keeping after seeing you in action, both in skill and socially. If not they can remove you at the end of the period.

# If you were removed after the above probation period, try not to freak out or make a scene, especially on the forums, this will only result in your embarresment. Unless you are Langston (a forum legend), you will lose against a guild in a flame war. Instead, take this as an opportunity to learn what you did poorly, and improve on it.

# If you are given Vent/TS privlidges, do not abuse them, join in on normal conversations, try and make friends, but don't be a chatterbox. Do not speak while the leader(s) are giving orders or doing DKP, this applies to raid chat/guild chat as well.

# Listen to what people tell you, and do not contradict them or provide alternate strategies unless 100% nessesary, even then, you should keep your mouth shut. If they are doing things that are beyond foolish and causing wipes, would you really want to be there anyway?

# If you are going to an instance where you havn't been before, take some inititive and do some research on the ecounters, particularly various abilites mobs and bosses will have so you can be prepared

# Do not show up late for raids

# Repair your gear

# Carry a generous stock of essential supplies (Poisons, Powder, Reagents, Ammo, etc.)

# Stock up on Shards if you are a warlock, there are often easily farmable mobs near instances available. Make a macro (do not spam it) that offers healthstones upon trade request. Don't use it during the instance, just when everyone is getting together.

# Stock up on Water/Food if you are a mage, and make a macro that offers food/water (again do not spam, once every 3-5 minutes should be plenty). Get to the meeting place early and use the macro as people show up .Don't use it during the instance, just when everyone is getting together.

# In the case of wipes, and you can ressurect, remember: Ressers->Mana Users (Mages + Locks first)->Tanks->Rogues. Mana users have to fill their mana bar along with their health bar in order to get ready, and often have to spend time rebuffing the raid. Locks and Mages take a bit of time getting back on their feet considering their self buffs are costly, and the lock needs to summon. Tanks have more HP than your average player, and need the extra time to med. Rogues often die in foolish places, and it's good to have most of the raid up in case of aggro when ressing.
As well, if your healers are up and at full mana when the rogues and tanks come up, they can heal them and restore the small amount of mana lost quickly.

# Ressing comes before rebuffing

and most importantly:

# Have fun, you aren't applying for a future career, it's only a game and everyone is here to enjoy themselves. If you are a likeable person, don't be shy about it.

Thanks everyone who has helped to contribute tips!

Raid Basics and Raid Etiquette by Karnal

One of the primary purposes of a guild is exploring high-level content. By forming raids and adventuring together, we can overcome many obstacles that we would never be able to overcome individually. However, in order to Raid together efficiently, successfully and with the best chance of maximizing our enjoyment of the experience, there are a few basic tips that everyone should know and strive to follow.

Player Preparation:

1) Make sure you sign up for the Raid you wish to attend as soon as possible.

2) Prepare yourself by researching information online concerning the zone and bosses that are being raided.

A) Access your guilds Tactics page and Forums to learn more.

B) Other Helpful Websites

Thottbot: World of Warcraft (http://www.thottbot.com/)

Allakhazam.com: World of Warcraft (http://wow.allakhazam.com/)

World of Warcraft The Unofficial Site (http://www.worldofwar.net/)

Main Page - WoWWiki, the Warcraft wiki (http://www.wowwiki.com)

3) Make sure that you have all the materials needed for the raid and that you have all reagents you need. Some raids have a much greater chance of success if everyone brings certain potions, resist gear or similar materials. Make sure you have yours with you along with your regular potion compliment and reagents. Keep in mind you will probably not be able to go back to resupply. If you do not have certain required potions, like Greater Fire Protection potions, try to obtain them from fellow guildmates before the raid begins. However, you should never rely on everyone having extras and you should always pay your fellow guildmates for their efforts at being prepared and helping others to succeed in the raid. If possible, look up the materials needed for required potions, buy them at the Auction House, and have a guild member do the combines for you before the raid. Be aware that repair costs for your items may be needed. This is a necessary expense that you must be ready to pay. If you do not have the money to cover possible repair costs during the raid, make sure to acquire it before the day of the raid.

4) On the day of the Raid be sure to be at the mustering point (Typically the entrance to the instance) at least 20 minutes before start time.

Raid Preparation:

1) Once assigned to a group and the raid begins to form, prepare yourself to buff other players and groups. There may be a "Buffing Area" that the Raid Leader moves the Raid to. If so, get to that area and begin to buff. If people are not in range of your buffs, move on to the next person and come back to them when they arrive. Do not move out of the area until told to do so. Moving away from the Buff Area while players are buffing is inconsiderate and wastes the Raid's time. Wait for the Raid Leader to call for the Raid to move.

2) How to request buffs:

1) If your group needs a group buff and the majority of your group's members are in range, then in the Raid channel, type

***Group <Insert Group # here> Needs <Insert Buff Name Here>***

There is absolutely no need to request Group Buffs in Ventrilo. It is much more efficient to request Group Buffs in Raid Chat and helps your fellow guildmates keep accurate track of which groups need buffs.

2) If you need an individual buff or missed the group version of a particular buff, then send a tell/whisper to a player of the appropriate class in the raid once you are in range. Your tell should read something like:

/tell <Insert Player Name here> ***Mark of the Wild please***

There is absolutely no need to request individual buffs in Ventrillo. It is much easier and less troublesome for the Raid and your guildmates to send a tell to the appropriate class for your individual buff.

3) Food and Water. If you need summoned food or water from a Mage, open a Trade window with one of them. However, be patient as they have many fellow guildmates to serve and may need to take a break to summon more.

4) Summonings. There may be conditions where some players are late or performing other actions in areas that are vital to the Raid's success. These players may need a summons. Warlocks should be prepared to summon other players if needed. They will need two other players to help them. If you are a non-buffing class and have received your buffs, please assist the Warlocks in summoning other players. Caster classes are busy buffing groups and individuals so non-caster summoners are best. If you have been summoned either exchange places with one of the summoners or make your way immediately to the Buffing Area to receive appropriate buffs.

3) Once the Raid is buffed and ready, the Raid Leader may begin to give pertinent instructions and an outline of the strategy for the particular encounter or instance. Listen closely to the Raid Leader for instructions. If you have a question, wait for the Raid Leader to finish speaking before you ask. Always ask questions if you need to. If you have a particular question to ask in regards to your class's role in the upcoming encounter, please phrase that question in your class channel if possible. If your Class Leader is not present, then you can refer your question to the Raid Leader.

Raid Execution

Once the Raid begins and you and your fellow guildmates move into the instance or begin an encounter, there are a few important tips you must remember.

1) Limit all communications via Ventrilo to specific information regarding the Raid or Encounter. Unnecessary chatter in the channel can cause significant problems for your fellow guildmates as important instructions and information can be drowned out. Use good judgement when speaking in Ventrilo during the Raid's progress.

2) Do not /afk without letting the Raid know. Doing so is called "ninja /afk'ing" and is universally hated. Your fellow guildmates rely on you to keep up with the Raid and all /afks cost the Raid valuable time. If you must /afk, announce so in Raidchat or, if appropriate, by saying your character's name and estimated /afk length in Ventrilo. If it is a long raid, the Raid Leader may call a "break" for a few minutes to enable fellow players to take care of personal needs such as drinks, restroom breaks etc. It is appropriate to request an /afk if you need to use the restroom. However, it is not appropriate for you to request an /afk if you need to take a shower. If you need to /afk for more than just a couple of minutes, you need to advise the Raid Leader and, quite possibly, prepare to loose your spot in the Raid group so that it can continue without serious inconvenience to your fellow guildmates.

3) Limit the amount of tells you respond to as much as possible. If you are in a Raid, do not devote lengthy amounts of time in /tells with other people. Your friends will understand that you need to concentrate as much as possible in fulfilling your obligations as a fellow Raid participant to your guildmates.

4) Death. It happens. If you die during a Raid, do not release unless you have been specifically requested to do so. Wait patiently for a resurection class to get to you. If you have the ability to self-rez, ask your Class Leader or Raid Leader if you should do so. Do not waste self-rez abilities on needless self-rezzing. If there are no ressurection classes still alive or able to ressurect you, run back to the instance as quickly as possible. Always listen closely to the Raid Leader's instructions during any time a Raid "Wipes" (All players dead.) or any encounter where "Battle Rezzing" is necessary.

If you are a Resurection capable class, get to dead players and ressurect them as soon as possible. If you can not find or target a corpse or it is out of range/sight, advise the raid or ask the dead player for location information. It is very important that you avoid angering nearby mobs during your efforts at rezzing. Do not go near the aggression range of any mob when trying to ressurect a player. Do not ressurect players who have corpses close to mobs. This can unintentially anger the mob and cause serious problems for the Raid. If, in your opinion, ressurecting a player may endanger the Raid or you and other ressurection classes can not target the corpse, request that player run back to the instance and get a summon.

If you are a buff capable class, buff newly resurrected players as quickly as possible. This will greatly reduce the amount of time the Raid has to spend regaining it's position in the instance/encounter.

5) Always stay with the Raid. If the Raid moves on, then move with the Raid. The Raid will pause from time to time for you to drink/eat so use that time wisely. If you are out of combat and low on mana but your assistance is not immediately required, take a moment to drink during the fight. Always be ready to stop drinking/eating and lend a hand when it is needed.

Your mini-map shows the location of other members in your group. Use that to keep up with them and the raid. It is also important that you follow the Raid closely and listen to the Raid Leader's movement instructions. Failing to do so may unintentially aggro mobs that can cause serious problems for the Raid. Paying attention to where the Raid is moving is extremely important. If you have any questions regarding where you are supposed to go, ask them as soon as possible.


All Raids involve combat to one extent or the other. Knowing how to properly execute Raid combat in specific instances is what determines the success of the Raid. There are a few tips to consider during Combat that are specific to Raiding.

1) If you are not a Main Taunt, Main Assist or Off Tank class/designate, do not draw the mobs to you. In every instance and encounter, certain players will be relied on to combat the mobs and force them to focus their attentions away from the main Raid. By drawing the mob to you by gaining more threat than the designated "Tanks" you are defeating their purpose and causing harm to your fellow guildmates. Sometimes, aggro can not be avoided. However, many times, it can be avoided by limiting the amount of damage you do to the mob, closely watching your healing aggro and taking measures to reduce it and paying very close attention to your location in relation to the mob. During some specific encounters, the Raid Leader will give specific instructions on maximizing the use of MTs and Offtanks in regards to threat generation. Pay very close attention to these instructions. Players who consistently aggro mobs away from designated MT/OTs hurt their fellow guildmates and the purpose of the Raid itself.

2) If you draw aggro during combat and are not supposed to, use your class's abilities to reduce your threat level, crowd control the mob with low threat abilities, move to a MT/OT designated to help or stay in place while an MT/OT gets to you. Your best chances of survival are going to rely on your ability to not generate additional threat on the mob by attacking it or using other high threat abilities. Never run towards other, unaggro'd mobs with a mob chasing you. Never fear a mob unless instructed to specifically do so. If you aggro a mob or group of mobs that the Raid can avoid engaging, do NOT run to the Raid seeking help. Die in place and/or lead the mobs as far away from the Raid as possible before you die. "Training" the Raid is universally hated.

3) Certain types of mobs require special treatement. Your Raid Leader will give instructions on the specifics of Combat where necessary. Follow these instructions closely. Do not attack mobs that are "Crowd Controlled" (CC'd) as this will usually result in the death of one of your fellow guildmates or the wipe of the Raid. Do not attack mobs that the Raid Leader has assigned to other groups/members.

4) Damage Strategies. Many Bossmobs require certain Combat strategies in order to assure the success of the Raid. Listen closely to Raid Leader's instructions regarding when and how to apply damage to the Boss. Many times, you must stop attacking the mob in order to stabilize combat. A well stabilized combat is a guarranteed win for the Raid. Wait until the Raid Leader or designate (MT,MA,other) calls for you to attack and only then should you begin.

5) Your support classes are doing the best that they can do to heal you, cure you and keep you alive while fulfilling the goal of the Raid. During combat, anything that you can do to make jobs easier on your fellow guildmates is going to be greatly appreciated. This includes using potions, food and bandages when necessary.

6) Play your class to the best of it's abilities as called for by the needs of the Raid. Listen closely to Raid Leader's and Class Leader's instructions and commentary.


Loot will be distributed according to the Guild's current system. However, there are some conditions that you need to be aware of.

1) It is the Master Looter's responsibility to loot the corpses of mobs and Bossmobs. Never loot a mob's corpse unless you have been specifically instructed to do so.

2) Many times, the current Raid Loot permissions will be changed on the fly. This is to facilitate the Raid moving as fast as possible through an area. During these times, it is necessary that you loot your mob appropriately. However, the timing of your looting is very important and can change depending on what instance you are in and what type of mob needs to be looted.

A) If you are in an instance where the mobs frequently drop "specials" or other items that bring up the Loot Window, unless instructed otherwise, do not loot until combat is over. Loot Windows can stack on your fellow guildmate's screens and impede their performance. Combat looting is frowned upon in under these conditions and hampers the progress and the likelihood of success of the Raid.

B) Some mobs must be looted immediately so that they can be skinned for valuable crafting or quest materials. Listen to the Raid Leader closely for instructions regarding these types of mobs and loot them as quickly as possible. This is one of the conditions that makes Combat Looting a necessity.

3) All Raid Members must be ressurrected and present in the zone before any defeated Boss can be looted. This is to avoid complications relating to their ability to receive loot. If you are a ressurrection capable class, you must ressurrect fellow guildmates as soon as possible after the encounter has been won. If a player is disconnected/offline due to technical problems, a short wait before looting is usually allowed. Be patient while your fellow guildmates are ressurrected.

4) Loot will be distributed by the Master Looter when appropriate and according to current Guild policy. Be aware of guild policy on loot issues and follow it accordingly.


After the objective of the Raid has been reached, the Raid Leader will announce the end of the Raid. When a Raid is over, make sure you do not leave the instance or Raid group until all your efforts at helping your fellow guildmates have been exhausted. This includes helping them ressurrect, offering buffs, healing, curing, summoning and offering portals. The Raid Leader or their designate will be the last one left in the instance/raidgroup. Once you have recovered your corpse and your activities with the Raid are completed, leave the Raid Group as soon as possible.


Ventrilo Etiquette

Ventrilo is used to facilitate the coordination of group events and Raids. As this is a service open to all members, certain natural rules of etiquette should be followed.

1) Check the settings of your Ventrilo client in order to make sure your voice is not too loud or too faint. Do this everytime you make changes to your Ventrilo client.

2) If you do not have a microphone, get one. Many microphones can be purchased for less than $10. (USD) Your ability to speak in the Ventrilo channel is crucial to the successful use of Ventrilo by the Raid to coordinate information. Every player is important and can have something important to say.

3) Do not speak during a Raid encounter unless you have information that must be announced for the good of the Raid's objective. Often, the Raid Leader will give instructions concerning what information is appropriate to be announced by the general Raid members. Strive to stay within these boundaries during the Raid.

4) Do not yell for any reason in Ventrilo even if it is because you are extremely happy. This can hurt the ears of your fellow guildmates.

5) Do not discuss non-raid specific matters in Ventrilo while the Raid is being conducted. Some "chatter" is to be expected from time to time. You need to be sufficiently aware of when this is possible and when it is not. A Raid Leader should not have to use their authority to clear the channel for Raid instructions.

6) Do not speak over others or drown them out. Allow the current speaker to finish speaking and only then offer your commentary. It is extremely difficult to hear more than one person talking at a time. Do your best to help alleviate this.

7) Do not interrupt others. Allow the speaker to finish before you offer your commentary.

8) Abuse of Ventrilo will not be tolerated. Your permissions to speak may be moderated as deemed necessary by the Raid Leader. If you have been "muted" then accept the chastisement and wait for an appropriate time to politely request your priveleges be restored. The Raid Leader has final authority over the Ventrilo channel and your participation in it. If the Raid Leader requests that the channel be cleared then refrain from speaking.

Raid Terminology

Aggro - Aggression. Generally used to describe the act of having a Mob attack a specific player within a group of players. Can also be used interchangeably with "Threat" in some cases.

Assist - An "Assist" is when you target your target's target. You can target a player or Mob and press the "F" key (default keymap) and your target will switch to what your previous target was targetting.

Assist Healing - A practice used by some healers to heal their fellow raidmembers. Typically, this is used on bossmob fights where the boss may switch targets frequently. The boss is targetted and the healer then Assists that boss to find the player who currently is targetted for attack by the boss.

Bossmob - Typically, in many encounters and instances, there will be an especially hard Mob to defeat. Usually, this Mob has a special name or title. This is called a "Bossmob." Lesser, special, Mobs that are easier to defeat in the same encounters can be called "MiniBosses."

Buff - Temporary beneficial spells and effects on you and/or fellow raid members. Also, the beneficial spells and effects that other players can give to fellow raid members.

Hate List - During combat, as players gain threat, they receive a spot on a Mob's hate list. Once you have generated sufficient threat, you will be at the top of the Hate List and targetted for attack by the Mob. Some classes are able to clear themselves off of Mob's hate lists due to certain abilities. Some classes can temporarily move themselves down in priority for attack on the Hate List. Outside of instances, Mob's hatelists can be wiped by running away from them a certain distance, depending on level difference. However, when inside an "Instance" it is always safe to assume that whenever you have been placed on a Mob's hate list, you will remain there until you die or exit the Instance.

MA - Main Assist. This is a player who determines the primary targets for the raid's efforts during combat. Usually, this responsibility is shared by the MT during a bossfight.

Mob - Mobile Object. Typically, a monster or other Non-player Character within the game.

MT - Main Taunt. This is a player, usually a Warrior, who has been assigned the task of focusing and controlling certain Mob's attention on them alone. This allows others to attack without the significant chance they will be attacked by the Mob the MT has controlled.

NPC - Non-Player Character. A character or monster that is run by the game itself and not by a player.

OOM - Out of Mana.

Phase - When engaging certain Bossmobs, the combat can be broken down into sections depending on the abilities and activities of that Mob. These are called Phases and can require radically different strategies be used to ensure success.

Pretargetting - Many times it is helpful for a raid group to take the chance to have it's members individually target certain Mobs before the engagment takes place. Pretargetting is usually done by the Raidleader who requests that certain players "Assist" him on his target.

Prox Aggro - Proximity Aggression. Every hostile Mob has an area around it that once entered by another hostile Mob or player, will cause it to attack that Mob or player. Typically, this area differs in size determined by the level difference between Mob and potential target. Low level players are the most likely to encounter large proximity aggro problems with higher level Mobs. Simply by entering into proximity to a hostile mob, a player generates a small amount of threat which places the target on the Mob's Hate List. However, once engaged with a target, the Prox Aggro area is removed for most mobs.

SA - Secondary Assist. This is a player who has been selected, along with another/others to help target mobs for fellow raidmembers during an engagement.

Tank - Typically these are classes and players who are able to take alot of damage while focusing the attention of a mob on them for the duration of the engagement. Usually a Warrior although other classes can "Tank" in some situations.

Threat - Every time an action by a player, whether benevolent or not, is performed within the area of interest of a hostile Mob, threat specific to that player is generated. The more threat that is generated by that player, the more likely that the Mob will focus it's attacks on that player.

Wipe - When all players in a Raid die.

Very Important Rule #1

1) Don't suck.

NOTE - Successful Raiding groups follow these general principles. If you want to be a successful Raid member and wish to maximize your online time, this is the Guide that will help you do that.


from Wendell of Defiant in answer to another thread on being ignored when applying to a guild:

Sometimes it can be difficult to keep up with every applicant and a high end raiding schedule. I try to get in touch with each applicant of my class, but unfortunately a few fall through the cracks. High end raiding (as mentioned) requires a great deal of time for farming, preparing, strategizing and of course actually raiding. I have to look out for a potential applicant when I have an opportuinity to talk, which is usually before or after a raid. I prefer to not send an impersonal mail to them, but at least talk to them directly - but, quite frankly, I do forget some (as I'm sure other class recruiters do). It's not a personal slight - just a matter of reality.

Comparing this to a real life job application is indeed somewhat accurate. Often times one of the things that stick out is someone that shows enough interest/desire to follow up. I'm not talking about constantly spamming them (that has the opposite effect), just a tell after a couple days (do a /who and make sure they are not in a raiding instance first!) and say something like "Hey, I put an app on your forums and wanted to follow up and see if there is any additional information you need". That leaves an impression on me, it shows you not only want to join, but also that you are willing to put at least a small amount of effort into making sure you stand out. It also gives them a reminder and can result in immediate feedback if they have filled the slot/etc.

It reminds me of my first "real" job, which I got senior year in college. I applied and did an interview, but did not hear anything back for several days. I made a single phone call to the interviewer and said I was calling to follow up and see if there was anything else he needed from me. An hour later the Human Resources department called me to make an offer. Turns out, he had interviewed several other college students who had similar qualifications, but it was the extra interest I showed that made me stand out.

Gear wise, the very top end guilds really need people to be well equipped to succeed. Gear shows experience, but it also makes what would otherwise be impossible quite doable. Succeeding in the very top end takes a combination of gear, preparation and skill, and the guilds pushing forward are not always going to have the time or desire (remember, the very top end guilds have been clearing BWL since December of last year and MC since last August) to go back and do a run through MC or even BWL very often to catch you up. Particularly since this would take an investment of time from a large number of people in the guild for a new applicant that may or may not work out.

Your best course of action to move up to raiding is to seek out a guild that is currently working on MC/BWL, they will be most willing to accept a character in lower level equipment and progress with them. There are no less than 36 guilds and 3 guild alliances that have made progression into Molten Core and 24 that have done at least Razorgore in BWL, so there are lots of options. You will be learning valuable skills and feel a much higher sense of accomplishment as you will be part of their progression, not just along for the ride when you first join. This does not mean do not apply to a top end guild, but do not be surprised if your equipment needs are not quite up to their expectations. And who knows, the MC level guild you join today may end up competing for first server kills a year from now!

from Columbo of CCT in the same thread

I do actually think its rude to ignore an applicant all together. That said, as Hartu said, it's not likely out of spite at all. If possible, contact a member of your class in the guild and ask them who the class officer is. Almost all guilds have them. Don't pester them, but ask them if they've reviewed your application (preferably not when they're raiding ;) )

The gear thing is an unfortunate catch 22. You can't be an effective raid member in MC without Dungeon 1 quality blues. You can't be effective in BWL without about half of your tier 1. You can't be effective in AQ40 Post-Fankriss without a whole bunch of tier 2/bwl customs. You won't likely survive the enterance into C'Thun's room without 6-7000 hp. Naxx is a big gear test (much of it) too, and the late parts are impossible without a good chunk of tier 3.

As I said, it's unfortunate, but if the guild you're looking to join is doing late AQ40, then there's no way around it, you have to be geared for it. You may have the stuff to survive in BWL, but obviously, so does the guild you're applying to. They're not recruiting you to help them master stuff they've already mastered. They want you to hit the ground running and be someone they want to fill a raid spot. If you're going to be a gear liability every time they're trying to progress, why recruit you at all?

This isn't a knock on you. You sound fairly competant, I imagine that simply you're applying to guilds that are a bit beyond your capability gear-wise. Luckily for you, there are lots of ways you can get geared to do the stuff you want to do:

1) A lot of late game guilds (CCT, HoE, Ephemera, etc.) run alt/friends MC. If the guild you're looking to join runs one of these, they can be a great opportunity to gear up and show them what you can do. If not, see if you have any friends in one of the guilds that do. They are friends runs for a reason.

2) Work on your tier 0.5 set. It's usually not great for raiding, but the fact that you endeavoured to do it shows something about how hard you're willing to work and how intent you are on raiding.

3) Simply change your focus to a guild working on lower end stuff. It may sound like settling for less, but trust me on this one, joining a guild early and working out all the challenges with them is the most rewarding part of raiding.

Good luck to you on your search.


Most guilds have some sort of application form - as noted try to answer every part.. the questions are there for a reason

Below is one my old guild CCT used as an example:






Fire Resist: (Melee 150+ Ranged 100+ unbuffed)

Nature Resist: (Melee/Hunter 200+ Ranged 150+ unbuffed)
(Prefer 250 unbuffed for melee/hunters)

Shadow Resist:

Days available to Raid:

Why you want to join CCT?

Past Guilds:

Reasons for leaving your old guild?

Tell us about yourself:


For 'gear' requirements etc you might make a link to your Armory, CTProfile or Allakhazam profile. This gives an indication of what you've been doing & where you've been. Whereas if you have a lot of BOE epics from the AH, you might want to give more detail about the instances you're familiar with...

good luck and as Snark said have FUN!

09-13-2007, 07:34 PM
Langston was (and still is to a lesser extent) a prominent Durotan personality, especially on the forums. He could be very scathing of others' posts, notably the lvl 1 trolls, tho he did it with a fair degree of wit and panache.

He was eventually banned on the forums for some harsh, though misunderstood, posts and now posts ironically on a lvl 3 alt 'Woe'.

09-14-2007, 06:25 AM
HA! Langston, Columbo... good times. <3 for Durotan.