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zaphomed
09-07-2007, 04:36 AM
Hi. I play in rather new guild where my mate is a raid leader and he is quite unsure about group setups in raids. He asks all the time from me that where i should put this lock and rogue etc. Now i have noticed that i cant help him as i dont know either lol, even tho i have raided lot since i hit 60.

Since not everybody knows every classes abilities, needs, auras and other stuff i would like to ask.
Is there any guides or tips anywhere that could explain some basics of how to set groups in raids or could someone give any tips?

In mt group we usually have mt, ot and lock + shaman + random (i have changed random to tree druid in fights where mt need loads of healing)
my group is usually 3x rogue + 1xshaman for wf and me slam warrior
healer group has usually paladin, shadow priest,priest,druid,shaman or something like that

i dont have no idea about rest, hehe.

Uselessllama
09-07-2007, 05:44 AM
You seem to have the right idea. Just put people in groups that will benefit each other.
Put the tanks in a group with a warlocks imp, maybe a shamans totems, and paladins aura's, or a druids tree form.
A powerhouse melee group might be a MM hunter, an enchancement shaman, a dps warrior, and 2 other rogues or 2 other random physical dmg dps.
Powerhouse caster group would include an ele shaman and a shadow priest.
Powerhouse healing group would include a shadow priest, and maybe group up the healers, if any, who have spellsurge.

I'm sure theres more I missed. But that's a start.

zaphomed
09-07-2007, 03:46 PM
thanks for your tips. i did not know that enchancement and elemental shamans makes any difference in a group and i had completely forgot hunters trueshot aura. where should those paladins be? they can give armor to tanks and concentration aura to casters but anything else useful? too bad we only have one raiding shadow priest so he is usually in healer group to give mana.

Nobody
09-07-2007, 04:40 PM
Ideal group makeup is going to change a lot depending on the individual strengths of your raid, as well as the encounter your facing.

To use two examples of fights I've actually done, the tank group for a raid just getting going on Gruul should be focused on improving the MT's ability to survive. This means stacking party members into the group that up the tank's EHP. Warlock for Blood pact, paladin for devo aura, if the MT happens to be a paladin or druid a warrior for commanding shout also helps out a lot. Tree aura can also be beneficial in this situation, as it makes it more likely that the HoTs that are ticking away during silences at higher growths keep your tank alive.

Conversely, void reaver, provided your fighting him with tanks geared up in Kara/Gruul's gear at the least, doesn't hit significantly hard, but threat generation is a major issue. Providing your tanks with shaman totems, feral druids, and additional warriors for battle shout can help your DPS push harder.

In both situations as many of both mitigation and aggro party members as you can provide the tanks would be useful, but that's only one(or possibly two) groups out of five. And with a limited number of each class, it's unwise to fall into the trap of stacking a few groups, while making the rest haphazardly. Thus knowing what the encounter will require of your raid is paramount to designing groups properly.

As far as the melee group stacking mentioned above, I'd say that hunters should only go into the melee group if you don't have enough rogues to fill it up. Hunters buff others in the group, but usually they get little, if anything, in return. A better choice for hunters would be a group consisting of spriest/hunter/feral/X/X, while the melee get something along the lines of enhance shaman/fury warrior/rogue/rogue/rogue. If you have an abundance of shaman, putting one in the hunter group for GoA and mana spring can be a great boon, but if your strapped for shaman as my guild is, windfury on the melee will provide a higher DPS boost unless your hunters are amazing and your rogues terrible.

Usually caster group stacking is pretty intuitive, but most raids should have enough casters that you can't fit them all into a single stacked five man group. My choice in this case would be to put the less crit centric classes such as affliction 'locks into the hunter/feral group, so that the mages and destro locks can reap more benefit from any ele shaman or moonkin that might be buffing them. And as always, an spriest to keep mana bars topped off.

I can't speak much to healing group stacking, as our healers are all solid enough for the encounters my guild has access too that we usually just put them in a group of they're own other than shaman and a paladin for tanks, and call it good.

Ceravantes
09-10-2007, 11:16 PM
Spec's are very important to consider when setting up group's. Like what was said above about enhancement and elemental shaman's, A very rough estimate would be about an additional 100-150 dps in kara/gruul gear when putting an enhancement shaman in the melee group over a resto/elemental. Also, Survival Hunter's (generally the higher dps spec) buff all melee dps based off thier agility, so grace of air is big, also leader of the pack to increase the ew proc's.

As time goes on you will get the feel of what fit's for you, as all raid setup's are different, based on play styles etc. So just try things out and see how they work.