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Alchamire
09-05-2007, 11:25 AM
The last couple nights have been interesting for me. I have had more poor results than good from my current spec and gear. The biggest thing that is driving me nuts is my own personally DPS. Right now I have a Ret Pally with greens and blues out DPSing me and its really irking me the wrong way.

If you armory me you will see that I have a high crit chance and not so much AP. I did this based off the theory that as long as I crit I will leave Deep Wounds and the Blood Frenzy debuff on the target and it for the rest of our DPS, also it will proc Flurry and make my attacks faster and give me more rage, thus making my crit more important than my AP. I am specced for Imp Slam and 2 points into Flurry. My Rotation is usually something like this in most fights:

MS
Attack
Slam
Attack
Whirlwind
Attack
MS
Attack
Slam

And so forth. After reviewing our last couple raids on Wow Web Stats (http://www.lossendil.com) I think its clear to me that I am doing something horridly wrong. I am still a firm believer that DW Fury > 2H MS for PvE DPS, but that is not an option for me right now. Even though I've been an officer in my guild for well over a year, I may not be a worthy DPS choice in future raids if I do not keep Blood Frenzy. I am trying really hard to figure out how I can improve my personal DPS. I know I am in desperate need of gear upgrades, but I am still waiting for those upgrades to drop for me in Kara and so on. My axe I will be upgrading to Bloodmoon as soon as I get my last couple Nether Vortexs. I know that 10% of my damage done is from Deep Wounds alone. I am specced for Imp Rend, but I rarely use it because I am forced to stance dance and usually use alot of rage by doing so and I would lose out on potential DPS. I've never really tried using Rend much in raids anyways, is it that effective?

Any suggestions?

Kazaganthi
09-05-2007, 12:24 PM
Hey. First off is your spec for pve dps, pvp, or a mix of the two? If you are going straight raid dps you may want to try a spec like this.WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?3200501135251002002100005050105025210 02000000000000000000000000000) I am pvp arena spec, but I still place high on the damage meter in raids. With this spec I'd start off with ms, then immediately whirlwind..then repeat. My attack sequence as arms looks like auto..ms..auto whirlwind..ms..auto...etc. Basically only use slam when you need a rage dump. Also once you get past 31% to crit in zerk...start stacking ap instead of crit...esp on your gems. After 31% you will get more dps out of ap rather than more crit. Your gear is good, ap not bad, crit good, hit rating higher than you need. Do you click or do you have everything hot keyed? If you don't have every thing hotkeyed you may not be able to reach your dps potential. It limits your movement and the speed at which you can use your abilities. Well write back and we'll get this worked out..:) In Kara the only class near ya in dps should be a warlock or a crazy good rogue. Also as you get more gear, consider going fury. An arms warrior can do decent dps, but a fury warrior can destroy the charts once you are geared properly. The only limiting factor is controlling your aggro.

P.S. Never use Rend you are just wasting a global

take care,

Kaz

psychostomp
09-05-2007, 02:51 PM
kazaganthi your spec is pretty spot on the only change i have is imp intecept in place of Imp slam and 4/5 commanding presence to achieve 3/5 flurry. after doing a large amount of respeccing to tweak my MS build and looking at some of the top warriors WWS I decided to give it a go w/o imp slam and my dps went up.

I tend to use a decent amount of HS between MS and WW's and am generally only beaten by our best geared rogue on the damage charts.

cast sequence is generally intercept MS normal hit WW white hit .

also make sure to keep bloodrage ticking and always pop zerker rage whenever the possibility of aoe damage is there for extra rage gen.

Mozman
09-05-2007, 06:34 PM
I was MS arms for a loong time, mainly for the blood frenzy buff. the most important element in that spec for decent DPS is windfury - or I found your rage generation sux.

I used imp slam with the quartz swing timer. I also had rage for HS dumping.

after the WF nerf I've gone back to DW fury and am beating (some) rogues again ;)

edit: your AP is, as you've noted, too low. Crit can be easily raid buffed and I think you've gone too far stacking crit over strength. I never used rend and imp rend is stoopid. from memory my deep wounds were never greater than 8% of total DPS and raid buffed I had 40% crit with axe spec - Gorehowl

Alchamire
09-06-2007, 06:29 AM
I know that DW Fury can really rape on the damage meters. I used to run neck and neck and some times beat our top rogues pre TBC. With my Blood Frenzy and Imp Battle Shout our rogues break 1,000 DPS. Some fights they have gotten 1,200 - 1,400. I would love to go back to DW Fury, but our raids will lose the BF, even though I have to admit, I hate MS for PvE content. I already have the Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade and am about half way to getting my Merciless Gladiator's Slicer. Once I get both of these with dual Mongoose enchants I will try to talk the other officers in my guild about going back to DW Fury.

A quick fix that I have thought about is maybe stop using Whirlwind. I use MS and WW on every cool down and throw Slams in between. From observing the break down of my attacks on Wow Web Stats (http://www.lossendil.com) I've noticed the following with my current build.

Melee Attack = 34% of my damage
Slam = 25%
MS = 18%
WW = 12%
Deep Wounds = 10%
Romulo's Poison Vial = 1%

Average Melee = 800 Average Crit = 1973 Total Melee Missed = 13%
Average MS = 1032 Average Crit = 2465 Total MS Missed = 6%
Average Slam = 1044 Average Crit = 2418 Total Slam Missed = 8%
Average WW = 850 Average Crit = 2025 Total WW Missed = 0%

First off I would like to note that I have 9.5% +Hit rating and still had quite a few misses.

Looking at this has made me wonder, would I be better off using Slam instead of using WW when its up? My Slam does more damage on average than my WW, which only does a little more than my Melee Attacks. So instead of using WW and waiting on the 1.5 GCD, I could continue Slam spamming instead which is apparently more damage and rage effecient.

My other option would be going back to using Heroic Strike instead of Slam. However this would greatly increase my unwanted threat. However this would solve my problem when the tank pulls the mob too far away and ends my cast on Slam. I think that is also why my Deep Wounds shows up as 10%, the mob gets pulled away while I am in the middle of a Slam and the percentages add up wierd. And another issue I think I have is keeping in range period. Like on the trash mobs in Gruul's that charge and the bats in SSC that charge. Another issue I have in SSC is that they poly all the mobs next to the one we are killing, so that throws WW out the window unless we have multiple mobs up that we are focusing on. And often if something goes wrong and they need to poly a mob they can't because it has Deep Wounds. Its a head ache.

Threat seems to be a big issue I have with this set up too. I pulled a Hateful Strike the other day from Gruul because I had a chain of Crits. MS, Melee, Slam, Melee, WW, Slam, Melee, and then another MS. The first four attacks landed with in a few seconds of eachother and were a huge threat increase, I had Deathwish up at the time as well and it definately did not help matters. With this chain of Crits I over jumped our OT for second threat and got one shotted. From my understandings you don't recieve any extra threat for crits other than one threat per point of damage, correct? Is having such a high Crit rating why I pull so much threat while doing so little DPS?

Kazaganthi
09-06-2007, 07:03 AM
Alchamire, a few more things. At 9.51% hit you should not miss with a two hander. Is your mod counting dodges as misses? If your rogues are breaking 1k dps, it is going to be hard to keep up with an ms spec. The most damage on average I have pulled as ms is between 800 and 900 dps. Fury is the only way you are going to get that high.

Also I would stick with whirlwind unless there are sheep around you. MS and whirlwind are instants so you can use them while on the move without losing dps. You noted that sometimes mobs move out of range of your Slam...this could be causing you a large drop in dps. I only use Slam as a rage dump on bosses, I never use it on trash. Depending on the trash and position of sheep, I either cleave, ms, or whirlwind. On bosses I ms, whirlwind, heroic strike, and occasionally slam if my rage spikes up high, and I need a large dump. Moz is also correct, for both you and your rogues windfury will be the biggest damage increase. It will do wonders for your rage generations and dps as a whole...even better if it's an enhancement shaman.

As your dps increases, threat is going to become a greater issue. It is the dps warriors worst enemy. If you do get a large string of crits, you may want to back off a bit on your dps. It's not your dps causing the aggro..it's your burst dps. Learn your tanks. Each tank will have a different tps or aggro buffer. Some tanks will let you go all our while others will require restraint. Always make sure you have salv. It is the dps warriors best friend and most important buff. You may also want to hang back for at least three sunders before you engage the mob to give your tanks a bit more of a cushion. Also do you use a feral druid ot or a prot one for gruul? Feral druids seem to be able to build threat a little bit better as ots in that fight.

Kaz

Alchamire
09-06-2007, 07:52 AM
Thanks for the input Kaz. I forgot to mention that we do have an enhnace shammy in our dps group. I am almost never rage starved really, thats why I throw Slam out there so much. Its either Slam spam or it becomes wasted rage. Usually we have a Prot Warrior as OT on Gruul. It depends on who can make the raid really do to people's work/school schedules. We have two Prot Warrior OTs and our MT is a Prot Warrior, we also have a Prot Pally and Furl Drood tanking some times too. With our MT and Drood as the OT I never get close to pulling threat. Our Prot warriors have a hard time keeping up though. Thus far our Pally has not attempted to tank Gruul.