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Klimpen
08-28-2007, 07:18 PM
I posted this as I'm sick of writing the same thing out in every Tank Gear argument. I felt I should share it, not only because I thought it could be useful for other people (so they don't have to write it), but also so I could get some feedback on if I should change some wording/whatever.

Feel free to change the threat stuff around for Warrior Tanks and use it yourself.


As a Tank, you've got few goals in gearing yourself for raids.

1) Uncritable, 490 Def. Removes the chance for a 200% damaging attack from the attack table.
2) Uncrushable, 102.4% Avoidance (Miss/Parry/Dodge and Block) with abilities active (ShieldBlock/Holy Shield). Removes the chance for a 150% damaging attack from the attack table.
3) Effective Health, giving yourself enough Sta/Armor/BV to survive any burst damage. After armor/BV, if the boss does 9k burst as a maximum having more than 9001 health is wasted. While that's a fairly extreme example, and I personally premote having a comfortable amount of extra Effective Health, it shows that there is such a thing as too much health.
4) If you're dieing because healers are going OoM, there are two things you can change in your gear.
4a) You can increase your threat via addition of +damage or threat enchants. This allows DPS to do more damage, faster. If you've got a threat lead, and none of your DPS'ers are holding back, you don't need more threat. More damage reduces the length of the fight, and therefore the amount of healing needed.
4b) If you've done all the other things above, Uncrush+Uncrit+Enough EH+Enough Threat, then you add in pure avoidance. I put this point last, as it's the least important. It's more important to max out threat/EH in my opinion, than it is to reduce how much healing the healers might have to do. I say might because you can't rely on avoidance, and your healers may have to do an equivalent amount of healing over some periods of the fight than if you had a lower avoidance total.

Edit: Clarified point 2 on Uncrushability.

adrenalize
08-29-2007, 01:10 AM
I hope you dont mind, but I have Copy and pasted to this on My guilds Pali forum, also linked to this as well :)

Klimpen
08-29-2007, 02:49 AM
I hope you dont mind, but I have Copy and pasted to this on My guilds Pali forum, also linked to this as well :)


Feel free to... use it yourself.

Slightly ammended, but the essence is there. It warms my heart that it's being used. Which was the whole point of me posting it. ^^

Vold
08-29-2007, 07:11 AM
As a minor note Klimpen, in point number 2 about gearing for uncrushability you mention 102.4% avoidance. You used the wrong term as the 102.4% includes block rating.

A very nice and concise list. Thanks. I think a Warrior generally prioritizes EH over uncrushability, but it's probably a matter of how you look at it since after we hit 490 defense we take no extra gearing to be uncrushable with Shield Block active.

Klimpen
08-29-2007, 07:18 AM
Block is a hybrid stat, it's technically both Avoidance and Mitigation.

Avoidance is a ___% chance to reduce damage taken by 100%.
Block is a ___% chance to reduce damage taken by ____.
Mitigation is a 100% chance to reduce damage taken by ___%.

When you become uncrushable, Block becomes a 100% chance to reduce damage taken by ____, and therefore straight Mitigation.

I use the wider term Avoidance to describe stats which push CrushingBlows off the attacktable. I use the term Pure Avoidance to describe Miss/Dodge/Parry and its reduction of damage by 100%. This is how it's usually done on the Paladin Forums.

Fubar
08-29-2007, 07:37 AM
Can I check my understanding?

If I am at 490 now, I am uncrittable by a skull level boss.

But to be uncrushable, I have to have my Shield Block active. I know that with shield block active it pushes crushing blows off the combat table, but I am not certain if I should be looking for gear to reach uncrushable without shield block.

thanks,
fubar

Vold
08-29-2007, 07:42 AM
Block is a hybrid stat, it's technically both Avoidance and Mitigation.

Avoidance is a ___% chance to reduce damage taken by 100%.
Block is a ___% chance to reduce damage taken by ____.
Mitigation is a 100% chance to reduce damage taken by ___%.

When you become uncrushable, Block becomes a 100% chance to reduce damage taken by ____, and therefore straight Mitigation.

I use the wider term Avoidance to describe stats which push CrushingBlows off the attacktable. I use the term Pure Avoidance to describe Miss/Dodge/Parry and its reduction of damage by 100%. This is how it's usually done on the Paladin Forums.

Hmmm, I've never heard that before and not sure if I agree with it.

I've always considered Block as straight Mitigation as it "mitigates" some of the damage of the attack. Avoidance, on the other hand, "avoids" the attack entirely and hence all damage.

The chance to do either has no bearing on what actually happens once the outcome of the attack role is determined. Mitigation is a reduction in the amount of damage taken from either Armor Value or a Block, while Avoidance is taking no damage at all either from a Parry, Dodge or being Missed.

In other words, after the attack roll if the outcome is:
Avoidance, then the attack has it's damage reduced by 100%.
Block, then the attack has it's damage reduced by ____%.
Mitigation, then the attack has it's damage reduced by ____%

I know we're basically saying the exact same thing. If it's generally accepted that "Avoidance" and "Pure Avoidance" are two different things then I guess I just learned something new. However, I just don't see how still taking some damage from a Blocked attack can be considered Avoidance. I also don't spend much time on the Paladin forums, and there's quite a few people on the Warrior forums who mis-use the terms Mitigation and Avoidance enough to create a knee-jerk reaction. :)

Klimpen
08-29-2007, 07:55 AM
Hmmm, I've never heard that before and not sure if I agree with it.

I've always considered Block as straight Mitigation as it "mitigates" some of the damage of the attack. Avoidance, on the other hand, "avoids" the attack entirely and hence all damage.

The chance to do either has no bearing on what actually happens once the outcome of the attack role is determined. Mitigation is a reduction in the amount of damage taken from either Armor Value or a Block, while Avoidance is taking no damage at all either from a Parry, Dodge or being Missed.

In other words, after the attack roll if the outcome is:
Avoidance, then the attack has it's damage reduced by 100%.
Block, then the attack has it's damage reduced by ____%.
Mitigation, then the attack has it's damage reduced by ____%

I know we're basically saying the exact same thing. If it's generally accepted that "Avoidance" and "Pure Avoidance" are two different things then I guess I just learned something new. However, I just don't see how still taking some damage from a Blocked attack can be considered Avoidance. I also don't spend much time on the Paladin forums, and there's quite a few people on the Warrior forums who mis-use the terms Mitigation and Avoidance enough to create a knee-jerk reaction. :)

It's true, I could've been clearer and I've fixed up my post.

One nigling thing for me, Block is mitigation while you're uncrushable. If you're not uncrushable then it's an avoidance stat (which doesn't have an assured 100% damage reduction). Mitigation for me is reliable(100% chance) damage reduction.

@Fubar,

Uncrushable with ShieldBlock/HolyShield. It takes a huge number of stats and extremely focused gear selection to become Uncrush without active abilities, I don't reccomend it at all.

Fubar
08-29-2007, 08:03 AM
Can I check my understanding?

If I am at 490 now, I am uncrittable by a skull level boss.

But to be uncrushable, I have to have my Shield Block active. I know that with shield block active it pushes crushing blows off the combat table, but I am not certain if I should be looking for gear to reach uncrushable without shield block.

thanks,
fubar

Vold
08-29-2007, 08:17 AM
@ Fubar

As Klimpen said, don't bother with trying to reach passive uncrushability as it's really not feasible until you're at a BT/Hyjal level of progression.

Kazeyonoma
08-29-2007, 09:52 AM
nice list =] agreed wholeheartedly.

Fubar
08-29-2007, 10:29 AM
thanks so much, worried me for a second.... :) I'll stick with shield block!

sorry for the double post.

appreciate all the help, from all of you.

Fubar