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Crimsonstorm
08-24-2007, 02:24 PM
So the 2 set bonus on T5, the block value thing.

1) Does it increase shield slam damage, if one activates shield block ,and then shield slams right after, before the mob attacks you?

2) Is it modified by shield mastery? Does it thus give 130 BV, or just 100?

Thanks.

Wartorn
08-24-2007, 02:30 PM
I've heard it does.

Ciderhelm
08-24-2007, 02:39 PM
To my understanding, yes and yes. There are people who can more accurately yes it, though.

Crimsonstorm
08-24-2007, 02:43 PM
Awesome!

Crimsonstorm
08-24-2007, 02:49 PM
So, anyone have a good macro for ensuring you always get that bonus on your shield slam?

Paumedie
08-24-2007, 03:00 PM
The answer is indeed yes and yes.

I tried making a macro to that effect when I first got the bonus, but decided that it wasn't worth the trouble.

It would be of limited use on boss fights anyway since SB and SS are on different cooldowns. I'd be afraid to wait the extra 1 second to activate SB.

Armstrong
08-24-2007, 03:06 PM
I haven't tested this since I don't have the set bonus, but off the top of my head something like this should do it:


/cast Shield Block
/stopcasting
/cast Shield Slam

You obviously also need to wait for both Sheild Block and Shield Slam to be off cooldown. The question then becomes whether you can afford to go the extra 1 second without Shield Block active in order to get the added block value on every Shield Slam.


EDIT: Paumedie beat me to it.

veneretio
08-24-2007, 03:19 PM
I'd be afraid to wait the extra 1 second to activate SB.
Agreed. Preventing a Crushing Blow > 130 BV.

You'll get the bonus quite a bit I can imagine just by natural overlapping. I'm definitely looking forward to this fantastic set bonus.

Paumedie
08-24-2007, 03:20 PM
This is what I tested:

#show Shield Slam
/cast Shield Block
/stopcasting
/cast Shield Slam(Rank 6)

The problem is that the button lights up at 17 rage, but those two abilities cost 27 rage combined. I wasn't able to figure out a way to make the macro not work if I didn't have the rage for both.

In other words, I don't want the macro to do anything if I press it and only have 26 rage.

I don't think that type of macro is possible anymore.

Crimsonstorm
08-24-2007, 03:25 PM
Yeah, seems more important to prevent crushes. You'd probably get a fair amount of slams with the bonus anyway.

Am I correct that the bonus goes away once you block an attack? Or does it go away if you avoid an attack? If its only on a block, then much of the time, even if your shield block and shield slam are spread a bit, you wont have taken a hit before the slam happens.

Paumedie
08-24-2007, 03:27 PM
Only if you block. When the first charge of your shield block buff goes away, so does the 2-piece bonus.

veneretio
08-24-2007, 03:34 PM
As silly as this looks, I'd use the following:

#show Spell Reflect
/cast Shield Block
/stopcasting
/cast Shield Slam(Rank 6)

This will light up at 25 rage which is a lot better than 17.

Crimsonstorm
08-24-2007, 03:40 PM
But that would show a 12 second cooldown instead of 6...

Lokesh
08-24-2007, 06:15 PM
While on the topic of set bonuses, does anyone know for sure if the T4 4-piece bonus gives 10% to abilities only (Rev, SS, HS) or does it include white swings? A friend of mine told me that a white swing will consume the 10% bonus instead of only abilities but I'd like to believe Blizzard can actually write accurate tooltips on occasion.

Syana
08-24-2007, 06:29 PM
/cast Shield Block
/cast Shield Slam

should work. Shield block is not on the Global cooldown.

Nevermind, it doesn't work. stupid crap!


/castsequence reset=5 Shield Block, Shield Slam

works better.

Crimsonstorm
08-25-2007, 02:07 AM
Killed void reaver today and got my T4 shoulders, woo! Now just need to get further into ssc.

I wore 4 dps pieces against him and held aggro for the first 50%, lol.

Also got Red havoc boots! Block value FTW!

TheZ
08-27-2007, 07:33 AM
No the bonus does not go away after a slam. The +block value lasts for the duration of the shield block (5 seconds) then it wears off. I just got my 2 set bonus for my T5 last week and well I've noticed a nice increse in my TPS, it has almost jumped by about 100 once i got the pants. Just the other day while on Vashj phase 1 i was hovering around 1100 TPS for most of phase 1 and had a few spikes to 1300 which was quite impressive :)

Currently I almost feel that my stats are kind of lacking though.. my block rating has gone up to nearly 33% unbuffed and my dodge/parry has gone down, dodge is around 20% and parry is around 18% unbuffed now :(

Nice tip to any tanks out there is to Pass the T5 gloves and just wait for the T5 shoulders and pants then wait for the gloves from Kael so that your able to bring your avoidance up a bit..

Crimsonstorm
08-27-2007, 02:41 PM
Currently I almost feel that my stats are kind of lacking though.. my block rating has gone up to nearly 33% unbuffed and my dodge/parry has gone down, dodge is around 20% and parry is around 18% unbuffed now :(

Nice tip to any tanks out there is to Pass the T5 gloves and just wait for the T5 shoulders and pants then wait for the gloves from Kael so that your able to bring your avoidance up a bit..

imo, less avoidance is a good thing for MTing provided that you are getting any other useful stat in exchange for losing the avoidance. (Armor, Stam, Block Value, Hit Rating, or even Crit or Agi).

Less avoidance, in moderation, does not result in more deaths, it results in healers spending a bit more mana. It also results in more rage = more heroic strikes = more threat.

Trading avoidance for stam/armor/block value is the best way to go, imo. Trading avoidance for hit/agi is also an improvment, imo.


I have 17% dodge, 15.5% parry, with just under 490 defense (but 61 resilience so I'm far above my needed 452 defense for uncrittable). But I have 16k hp, 17.4k armor, and close to 600 block value, And I tend to generate 1000 to 1100 TPS on bosses, with heroic strikes on ~75% of autoattacks in periods where a boss is attacking me. This will become higher once I get T5 legs and the set bonus.

I do not care AT ALL about the low avoidance, in boss fights without our multiple tree druid/lifebloom setup I am always topped off except right after a boss hit, with over 21k hp and 21k armor fully buffed. I have the right healing support such that I dont even have to think about avoidance, and htus can make myself essentially invincible to our current content with armor/stam stacking, and generate plenty of threat so that none of our dpsers are capped.


I would not take the Kael gloves over T5, because T5 has 44 block value, and I want the T5 set bonuses, which are awesome.

Aelvain
08-28-2007, 12:34 AM
imo, less avoidance is a good thing for MTing provided that you are getting any other useful stat in exchange for losing the avoidance. (Armor, Stam, Block Value, Hit Rating, or even Crit or Agi).

Less avoidance, in moderation, does not result in more deaths, it results in healers spending a bit more mana. It also results in more rage = more heroic strikes = more threat.

Trading avoidance for stam/armor/block value is the best way to go, imo. Trading avoidance for hit/agi is also an improvment, imo.


I have 17% dodge, 15.5% parry, with just under 490 defense (but 61 resilience so I'm far above my needed 452 defense for uncrittable). But I have 16k hp, 17.4k armor, and close to 600 block value, And I tend to generate 1000 to 1100 TPS on bosses, with heroic strikes on ~75% of autoattacks in periods where a boss is attacking me. This will become higher once I get T5 legs and the set bonus.

I do not care AT ALL about the low avoidance, in boss fights without our multiple tree druid/lifebloom setup I am always topped off except right after a boss hit, with over 21k hp and 21k armor fully buffed. I have the right healing support such that I dont even have to think about avoidance, and htus can make myself essentially invincible to our current content with armor/stam stacking, and generate plenty of threat so that none of our dpsers are capped.


I would not take the Kael gloves over T5, because T5 has 44 block value, and I want the T5 set bonuses, which are awesome.

This argument has been repeated way too many times, and should probably not be in this thread, but you're significantly increasing the frequency of spike damage you take with such low avoidance. Generally block value and stamina are great to favor, but not in every single slot.

As for the glove comparison, Silvermoon are faaaaar superior to tier 5. They are a higher item level, have no wasted itemization points in strength and block rating (which is basically sub-par mitigation, only good when pushing for uncrushable without shield block), provide more effective health, and give 2 gem slots on top of already being superior stat-wise. If you're talking threat, you can even socket them with 2 8 hit gems and they will come out on top in terms of threat, effective health, and avoidance.

Aelvain
08-28-2007, 12:41 AM
I'm not entirely sure why you all are concerned with making a macro to cast shield block then shield slam. Can't you just hit your shield block keybind and immediately after, shield slam? Regardless, against bosses that it matters to shield block, you shouldn't really wait that extra second and risk it. You'll have 1 in 5 shield slams line up if you hit both on cooldown (1 shield slam every 30 seconds).

Crimsonstorm
08-28-2007, 12:21 PM
As for the glove comparison, Silvermoon are faaaaar superior to tier 5. They are a higher item level, have no wasted itemization points in strength and block rating (which is basically sub-par mitigation, only good when pushing for uncrushable without shield block), provide more effective health, and give 2 gem slots on top of already being superior stat-wise. If you're talking threat, you can even socket them with 2 8 hit gems and they will come out on top in terms of threat, effective health, and avoidance.

While the T5 does waste points on str and especially block rating, the block value is a nextremely efficient stat, and actually more than makes up for it.

I'll take the 44 BV + 16 str + 23 Block rating over an equivalent amount of itemization points in avoidance stats. The mitigation from the block value is significant, and it contributes to effective health.


The Kaelthas gloves are moderately better for effective health, that is true. But the T5 is WAY better for threat generation. Given both, there would be cases where you would use each one. And The Kaelthas gloves with two 8 hit gems are still MUCH worse for threat than the T5. 44 block value + 16 agi + 16 str is way WAY better than 16 hit for threat (plus that BV gives mitigation and the Agi gives dodge).


For me the deciding factor is the set bonus. The pieces are similar enough to each other in overall value from their stats, though they are good against different things. The T5 contributes to getting two awesome set bonuses, while the Kaelthas gloves dont.

If you flipped the stats, I'd still take the one that contributed to the set bonus.