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Teragon
07-31-2007, 11:30 PM
It is a well known fact that warriors can, to the dismay of some, do some incredible dps. However many may wonder what is the best spec for warriors do dish out damage in PvE with. I have wondered this too. But, I was unable to test anything because as you see (armory me) I am not in the best of gear. Hell, my gear plain sucks. So when blizzard brought the premades back I jumped on the opportunity. Blizzard gave the premades some pretty nice dps gear and some pvp gear. I will be showing you the results of the best case test on each one

Every test was tested against a Servant of Razelikh. Each PvE dps test is based over a period of 6 minutes and 35 seconds
only buff was battleshout. every stat given in battlestance unbuffed

Information gathered using SW stats
I used the same specs for both the DW and 2h variations of each test. So each two hand test has more dps potential than stated due to lack of improved slam

Abilities used during these tests

Bloodthirst
Whirlwind
Heroic strike
Deathwish
Trinkets
Slam
Sword specialization


There will be more updates as I continue to test

Contents:
1.0 Item List
2.0 Tests
2.1 Full Fury
2.1.1 Dual wield
2.1.2 Two hand
2.2 Fury Swords
2.2.1 Dual wield
2.2.2 Two hand
2.3 Fury Axes
2.3.1 Dual wield
2.3.2 Two hand
2.4 MS combos
2.4.1 MS/flurry
2.5 Few points in Prot
2.5.1 Fury/Prot
3.0 PvP viability: coming soon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.0
Here is the list of items I used in the tests:

Onslaught battlegear: Onslaught Battlegear - Item Sets - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=672)

Worgen claw necklace
Dra.pe of Dark Reavers
Bladespire Warbands
Lion’s Heart Girdle
Dreadboots of the Legion
Ring of a Thousand Marks
Violet Signet of the Master Assassin
Bloodlust Brooch
Tsunami talisman

Bloodlust Brooch and Worgen claw necklace were only used in the dual wielding tests

Adamantite chain of the Unbroken
Mooncleaver
Lionheart Champion
Gladiator’s right ripper
Gladiator’s left ripper
Gladiator’s slicer
Gladiator’s Quickblade
Gladiator’s Hacker
Gladiator’s Cleaver
Gladiator’s crossbow
Abacus of Violent Odds

Adamantite chain mooncleaver LH champ were only used in specific tests abacus was used in all two hand tests for rage gen used the glads fist weps for full fury test used glads swords for fury/swords and used glads axes for fury/axes

2.0 Tests
All attack stats should be read X times he used it of those time he crit Y times
deep wounds is a dot

(ver) 1.2

2.1 Full Fury

Full Fury Test Spec (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?3032030130200000000000005050105505012 05310510000000000000000000000)

2.1.1 Dual Wield



Stats: Melee stats:
Str 514 Crit 25.71%
Agi 350 Hit 154-- 9.77%
Stam 649 atk pwr 1568
Armor 10894

Tsunami talisman procs:
Enrage procs: 2
deahtwish uses: 2
bloodlust brooch uses: 2

DPS: 837


Average damage Max damage Breakup
Auto Attack: 413 1536 50.7%
335 attacks 11 misses 111 crits

Bloodthirst: 1311 3032 22.5%
58 uses 18 crits

Heroic Strike: 956 2050 17%
60 uses 15 crits

Whirlwind: 705 1587 7.6%
35 uses 11 crits

Deep Wounds: 115 162 2%
Basis for all fury pve dps this is my control which I will be comparing the other specs up against

2.1.2 Two Hand


Stats: Melee Stats:
Str 514 Crit 27.46%
Agi 330 Hit 127 hit rating 8.05%
Stam 605 Atk Pwr 1602

Armor 10854 I switched out Worgen Claw necklace with Adamantite Chain of the unbroken
I replaced dual gladiator fist weps with Mooncleaver and replaced bloodlust brooch with abacus of violet odds.

Fury Two hand (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0500232033200000000000055000105005212 05310510000000000000000000000)

TT procs: 3
En procs: 3
DW uses: 3
abacus uses: 4

DPS: 825


AVG MAX Breakup
AA(autoattack) 1249 2250 47.2%
118 attacks 38 crits

BT(bloodthirst) 1470 2508 26.3%
53 uses 18 crits

WW(whirlwind) 1394 2347 14%
33 uses 14 crits

HS(heroicstrike) 1620 2855 8.4%
14 uses 5 crits

DpW(deepwounds) 196 278 4.8% surprisingly i managed to pull of about the same dps. the problem is is that it seems to vary a whole lot as i mentioned before my other tests turned up widely different results. so it CAN work... but why WOULD you? if you really want to pvp but don't want to respec from full fury just slap on a two hander. and don't use rampage. it should work pretty nicely (though not nearly as well as MS)

(Ver) 1.2

2.2 Fury Swords

Fury Words test spec (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?3032132130200050000000005050104405012 05310000000000000000000000000)


2.2.1 Dual Wield

I used the same gear for this test as the full fury dps test except I’m using gladiators slicer and quickblade same stats

TT procs: 5
EN procs: 1
BB uses: 3
DW uses: 2

DPS: 846


AVG MAX Breakup
AA: 352 1275 41.1%
399 attacks 17 misses 24 crits

HS: 927 1818 23%
71 uses 24 crits

BT: 1182 2501 21.3%
56 uses 1 miss 22 crits

WW: 649 1349 6.7%
35 uses 5 crits

SS(swordspec): 64 1248 6.5%
26 attacks 9 crits

DpW: 100 167 1.4% This spec really surprised me. At first I didn’t think that it was going to out do full fury for the lack of improved berserker stance. But as I started testing I was looking into my combat log. On one of my tests I had just as many sword spec procs as I had whirlwinds having the fast offhander and sword spec proccing off of everything but itself really made this a valuable asset to the dps. it does about the same as my full fury test. but it also has more pvp viability (throw on a two hander now you have sword spec with everything else :P)

sword spec doesn't use the weapon that procced it for the attack it uses the main hand weapon even if the offhand made the attack. i'm going to do some testing to see if it will proc without a mainhand sword. it will proc less though

2.2.2 Two Hand

Two hand Fury Swords (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0500232035200050000000055000105005212 05012000000000000000000000000)

same gear as two handed full fury test except using lionheart champion


str: 524
agi: 374
stam: 605
armor: 10342

AP: 1594
Hit: 119 (7.55%)
Crit: 26.44%

LH: 9
TT: 6
AB: 4
EN: 2
DW: 3

793 dps



Average Damage Max Breakup

AA: 1127 2086 44.9
124 hits 43 crits

BT: 1178 2482 20.8
55 uses 17 crits

WW: 1188 2168 15.7
41 uses 17 crits

Slam: 1213 2497 10.1
26 uses 5 crits

DpW: 171 252 4.3


SS: 1305 1930 4.2
10 procs 5 crits


this spec varies widely during dps going from massive dps to average dps constantly it has some pretty good pvp viability (still not as good as arms) but it IS possible. Still a pretty good spec :P

next up fury axes. maybe i'll get some crazy results

with all the two handers it seems the variable is how much rage you generate. i noticed on the high dps tests i constantly had rage. on teh low dps tests i had very little rage. i was hoping dragging it out to 6 and a half minutes would eliminate that but it appears to have an extremely large effect

2.3 Fury Axes
Fury Axes test spec (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?3500132130250000000000005050104405012 05310000000000000000000000000)

Same gear as full fury spec. except Gladiators cleaver and Gladiator’s Hacker
Same stats as full fury and fury swords DW except 30.71% chance to crit

TT: 5
EN: 3
DW: 2
BB: 3


DPS: 799
AVG MAX Breakdown
AA: 361 1181 46.9%
413 attacks 162 crits 18 misses

BT: 1227 2259 22.4%
58 uses 28 crits

HS: 938 1753 20.6%
70 uses 26 crits

WW: 764 1424 8.6%
36 uses 16 crits

DpW: 106 140 1.4% Didn’t get quite as good results. The extra 5% did seem to make a difference. But I got to the point where I was feeling that it wasn’t critting as much as it should be.maybe its just cause I had finished testing fury swords when I did this so I was used to seeing sword spec proc every 10-15 seconds and having a lot of those procs crit that just seeing more crits didn’t seem that appealing

2.3.2 Two Hand

same gear as full fury 2 hand test
same stats except 32.48% chance to crit

TT: 4
EN: 4
AB: 4
DW: 2

DPS: 707



AVG MAX Breakdown
AA: 1122 2138 46.4%
116 attacks 47 crits
BT: 1063 2009 22.7%
60 uses 19 crits
WW:1090 1945 14%
36 uses 14 crits
HS: 1478 2497 12.2%
27 uses 11 crits
DpW: 163 246 4.7% same issue with dps depending on rage generated :| probably has some pretty good pvp viability but with resilience i would probably rahter have sword spec myself just my opinion

2.4.1

MS/Flurry

MS/Flurry spec (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0500502035201052000100055000104005212 05000000000000000000000000000)

same gear same stats as two hand fury swords

LH: 12
TT: 3
EN: 5
DW: 2
AB: 3

DPS: 814



AVG MAX Breakdown
AA: 1150 2081 41.2%
117 attacks 42 crits

MS: 1339 2793 22.2%
54 uses 12 crits

Slam: 1448 2479 15.5%
35 uses 14 crits

WW: 1051 2153 10.6%
33 uses 8 crits

DpW: 180 222 5%

SS: 1037 1851 3.8%
12 procs 3 crits

HS: 1869 2341 1.7%
3 uses 2 crits
one of those high rage tests. Also, this talent build has imp slam in it which I used heavily the other two handed tests didn’t you would probably see a more balanced increase in dps if you picked up imp slam in the other builds. Its still up to you in my opinion though I would just stick with fury in raids. It scales better.

2.5 Few Points in Prot

2.5.1 Fury/prot

0/31/30 DW (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0000000000000000000000005050104205012 05010000055511030020120500000)


Stats Melee
Str 525 AP 1568
Agi 350 Hit 154 (9.77%)
Stam 649 Crit 25.71%
AC 11913

BB 3
DW 2
TT 5
EN 5

DPS 714


AVG MAX BD

AA: 385 1542 54.9%
402 hits 122 crits 35 misses
BT: 1096 2129 23.3%
60 attacks 17 crits
HS: 927 1730 14.1%
43 attacks 13 crits
WW: 630 1415 7.7%
34 attacks 6 crits

rather odd results. on one hand we have the 10% onehand wep spec making a large difference then we have it making a small difference. no idea how this spec would hold up iff you planned on offtanking but it would definitely work better than the other dps specs i've posted (for tanking).

Ciderhelm
07-31-2007, 11:41 PM
Teragon, the code for formatting here is , without spaces. If you don't get around to editing it in is [code], I can edit in the formatting when I get a bit of time. :)

Teragon
07-31-2007, 11:48 PM
Teragon, the code for formatting here is , without spaces. If you don't get around to editing it in is [code], I can edit in the formatting when I get a bit of time. :)

yes please you kinda confused me and tahnks alot for letting me bring this here.

Ciderhelm
07-31-2007, 11:52 PM
that tag got all messed up in my post. lol

yeah, i'll redo those either soon tonight or early tomorrow

Teragon
08-01-2007, 12:04 AM
i already fixed it =)

Ciderhelm
08-01-2007, 12:07 AM
alrite. I'll get this stickied and webpaged as well once there are some responses. Do you mind if I do a little formatting (bolds, letter sizing, spacing, etc)?

Teragon
08-01-2007, 12:09 AM
go ahead! i'm not really that great at the programming thing... well only cause i never learned :P

Ciderhelm
08-01-2007, 02:02 AM
I need to touch up the formatting on this again, I actually just screwed a few of the CODE tables trying to fix them. :D

Until that point, the page is here:
TankSpot - Warcraft Warrior's Reference - PVE DPS Spec Analysis (http://tankspot.com/index.php?pageid=TeragonDPSAnalysis)

I wouldn't suggest making that public til we get all the formatting done right, though.

Teragon
08-01-2007, 07:56 AM
I need to touch up the formatting on this again, I actually just screwed a few of the CODE tables trying to fix them. :D

Until that point, the page is here:
TankSpot - Warcraft Warrior's Reference - PVE DPS Spec Analysis (http://tankspot.com/index.php?pageid=TeragonDPSAnalysis)

I wouldn't suggest making that public til we get all the formatting done right, though.

i'm currently updating two handed fury swords/axes right now and will be updating consistently as blizzard makes changes obviously. but at least let me finish retesting the swords and axes :P

Teragon
08-01-2007, 07:40 PM
Hey Cider. i changed the name of this to Beserk: a Warrior DPS spec analysis

Ciderhelm
08-01-2007, 07:44 PM
Sure. I'll update that ASAP :) Have to get a couple small things done first.

I'm going to align the stuff in Code as well and put it onto the main site.

Mozman
08-01-2007, 10:33 PM
interesting stuff ;)

Not sure why you used imp intercept over imp execute for PvE damage, tho it probably doesn't matter as it would be 'unfair' - I've hit 1200 DPS on those mobs using imp execute..

I did similar tests at one stage between 17/44 & 11/50
WoW Forums -> Tested: 17/44 v 11/50 DW PvE DPS (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=108309798&sid=1)

test was done with macros so I could ensure consistent damage using bloodthirst, 1 heroic strike repeated and hitting whirlwind whenever up. I also used a macro to ensure my Battle shout, abacus, rampage and zerker rage were always active at the same times for both talent build tests. data from recap and swstats

Teragon
08-03-2007, 05:57 AM
interesting stuff ;)

Not sure why you used imp intercept over imp execute for PvE damage, tho it probably doesn't matter as it would be 'unfair' - I've hit 1200 DPS on those mobs using imp execute..

I did similar tests at one stage between 17/44 & 11/50
WoW Forums -> Tested: 17/44 v 11/50 DW PvE DPS (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=108309798&sid=1)

test was done with macros so I could ensure consistent damage using bloodthirst, 1 heroic strike repeated and hitting whirlwind whenever up. I also used a macro to ensure my Battle shout, abacus, rampage and zerker rage were always active at the same times for both talent build tests. data from recap and swstats

yes i didn't pick up improved execute for these tests as i did not use execute. and i have actually found a 20 second intercept to be very nice in many raid encounters.

Ciderhelm
08-03-2007, 11:24 PM
Teragon, I remember Aedak saying that about Intercept way back in the day. :p

Teragon
08-10-2007, 02:29 PM
i am really sorry i haven't added more tests. the test realms have been down a lot lately and I've been feeling kinda burned out expecting many changes between now and WotLK. not sure how different things are going to be. this will be outdated with the addition of the 10 levels and new talents

Teragon
08-16-2007, 09:16 PM
ok added a "Few Points in Prot" section

Rak
09-01-2007, 05:31 AM
Very interesting results. I may change my DW fury spec to include sword spec during a farm raid and see if I notice it helping my damage.

The only thing that concerns me is that in the base DW fury test, you don't use Rampage at all. I understand you were trying to keep the specs fair and such, but not using the last talent really gimps the result. The 250 attack power from Rampage converts into just over 17 DPS. Considering the DW sword spec version beat the normal DW fury build by only nine DPS, this is pretty significant if you just compare these two.

I know your intent wasn't to compare those two so I appreciate what you did.

Teragon
09-05-2007, 10:39 PM
Actually i DID use rampage... i just didn't mention it because i assumed it would be obvious that i would use it

and i found that sometimes it was hurting my dps trying to keep it up.

most of these specs are roughly the same in this gear... they are all subject to vary wildly for other gear. but this does show hat there are definitely more specs to suite more playstyles. i mean i actually sort of like fury swords in pvp. just bust out the two hander and go to town >:D

Cryinfreeman
09-06-2007, 12:06 AM
Tbh, i don't believe that tests like this one are good to define the dps potential of warrior. The results you got don't represent at all the dps that a warrior will have in a raid situation.

Tests against Servant of Razelikh, i remember them to be done in order to find the miss chance or the contribution of weapon skill since you can achieve thousands of attacks against these mobs and therefore get a large pool of swings.

Rak
09-06-2007, 05:01 AM
Actually i DID use rampage... i just didn't mention it because i assumed it would be obvious that i would use it

and i found that sometimes it was hurting my dps trying to keep it up.

most of these specs are roughly the same in this gear... they are all subject to vary wildly for other gear. but this does show hat there are definitely more specs to suite more playstyles. i mean i actually sort of like fury swords in pvp. just bust out the two hander and go to town >:D

Very interesting then. I'm going to respec before Nightbane tonight and grab sword spec. I definitely want to see it before the windfury change happens.

Teragon
09-06-2007, 10:56 AM
tell me how it works. as i have mentioned several times before results WILL vary due to the fact i am hitting a lower level mob and i didn't have any raid buffs

Rak
09-06-2007, 09:39 PM
Well, it's very inconclusive so far. I had a windfury shaman follow me all night for netherspite/nightbane and then 2 heroics. At times I would have higher than normal damage, and at times lower than normal damage. I did notice that I seemed to have a bit more rage on average than I used to have.

I think it may indeed be better, but I definitely need to try it for a few days to be sure. I also have a lot more +hit than your tests had, but I'm not sure if that would impact results positively or negatively.

psychostomp
09-07-2007, 07:24 AM
the only real problem i see with the tests is that servants are at such a lower level it complely negates miss dodge parry from the equation.

Will be interested to see Raks testing on actual boss fights esp. if he could provide WWS with sword spec and traditional 17/44. This would allow a better look imo at said damage output and dps

Rak
09-07-2007, 07:37 AM
I'll try to log some fights when we clear Kara on Tuesday.

Teragon
09-08-2007, 02:41 PM
yes that sounds very nice. actually there were still a couple of misses from autoattacks during dual wielding tests.

please get those results!

Teragon
09-11-2007, 10:27 AM
i will get those two hand fury axes results in sometime

Rak
09-11-2007, 11:44 PM
Raak - WWS (http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=brnzqa4zlyo3e&a=5)

Took some apps on a Kara raid tonight. It was beyond terrible. Our GM (I'm warrior officer, not GM sadly) refused to replace them due to trying to prove a point or something. I'm in a really bad mood so forgive this short post.

I was tanking for the whole Moroes fight, so not much there. I did not have windfury for anywhere near the whole raid, due to a terrible shaman app. I did have leader of the pack for almost all of it, I believe.

The Armory (http://wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Runetotem&n=Raak)
That's my gear/spec I used. Consider this just a post since I promised to get it up here tonight, this raid was terrible and most of us stopped trying after two bosses. I'll definitly record more before switching back to 17/44 for you guys.

I noticed some triple sword spec procs... Those are amazing. According to that WWS my sword spec procs hit more often than my Bloodthirts too, so that's something to think about. I've been switching gear to get less and less hit, and I think that may have actually made up for it.

Teragon
09-12-2007, 10:14 AM
must have been a terrible run cause i do more overall dps as sword spec arms without a shaman >< also how did you put your stats up on a site like that. it could come in handy for future testing... sorry about the bad kara run :\

still looks like a lot of potential in it though keep testing !

i would do it myself but i don't have two decent swords for it :(

Rak
09-12-2007, 11:33 AM
Wow Web Stats (http://www.lossendil.com/wws/doc-index.jsp)

Teragon
09-13-2007, 09:48 AM
thanks

Rak
09-13-2007, 10:04 AM
I grabbed The Decapitator last night, so I had to go back to 17/44. I liked sword spec, too =[

Soulonn
09-13-2007, 10:39 AM
If I recall, there's a Hand of Justice-esque trinket in TBC, isn't there? Wouldn't that help negate the nerf to WF totem? I've always wanted to try the DW Sword spec for pure PVE dps but I don't have the access to gear that others do to do a real testing of it. I love dw fury spec, just lovely to see all those damage numbers spamming the screen.

Logical Creativity
09-14-2007, 11:22 PM
Hi my first post here, must say it's an awsome resorce for tanks. Must post a link on my guild forum.

Bit unconventional this one but decided to do a similar test but using a 41 prot 20 fury build on the test realm. Using the arena fist weapons I was averaging around 600-750dps spamming 5 sunder devastates in battle stance (too lazy to go over to the fray island).

Whilst i'm pretty sure for most fights spamming devastate in such a way would pull aggro for sure, but playing around with it on the shade where there is no aggro problems had incredibly suprising results.

Wondered if everyone else was knowledgeable of devastate dps or have i just been living in a cave?

Alchamire
09-15-2007, 05:12 AM
I recently installed a TBC hack server on my computer. Its great just for playing around with ideas to figure out what spec and gear I want to go for. Last night I was playing around with a DW/Swordspec with 2 Blinkstrikes both with mongoose enchants. I also threw in Dragonspine Trophy and a Thundering Skyfire Diamond to increase the number of attacks I put out. I have to say that all and all I was pretty dissapointed. The idea didn't work nearly as well as I thought it would. I was still putting out good numbers, but the proc rates were horrible for swordspec and blinkstrike. I had alot of haste procs though, which were most likely the only reason I saw good sustained DPS.

Not all of the math and mechanics are right on my server though, so there is a few faults here and there in any data I come across. However, if any of you have any questions about specs/gear, send me a tell with a list of the gear and link the spec from Wowhead (http://www.wowhead.com) and I will give it a shot and post the results for you.

Teragon
09-18-2007, 05:07 PM
last time i seen a private server attack power didn't even affect damage at all... never trust a non blizzard server for testing...

keep the ideas coming!

Teragon
11-15-2007, 09:27 PM
my poor guide is outdated :(

Driggan
11-15-2007, 09:50 PM
I gotta wonder though, I think the highest Dps sec would have to be a Blood Frenzy spec. While this is only the case on bleedable mobs, I'd think that it would be the ultimate PVE dps spec, provided you don't mind taking a hit to your own dps.

In the average raid there can be 2-3 hunters, about 4 tanks / offtanks (Tankadins don't get such a big boost), 3-5 melee classes including shamans / warriors / rogues. 4% more damage for all of these combined more than makes up for the damage lost by speccing fury. Not only that, but your tanks will do more threat because of it.

Just a thought.

Mozman
11-15-2007, 09:57 PM
I gotta wonder though, I think the highest Dps sec would have to be a Blood Frenzy spec. While this is only the case on bleedable mobs, I'd think that it would be the ultimate PVE dps spec, provided you don't mind taking a hit to your own dps.

In the average raid there can be 2-3 hunters, about 4 tanks / offtanks (Tankadins don't get such a big boost), 3-5 melee classes including shamans / warriors / rogues. 4% more damage for all of these combined more than makes up for the damage lost by speccing fury. Not only that, but your tanks will do more threat because of it.

Just a thought.

Blood frenzy was great before the WF nerf - I found MS just lacks rage without it and I do more DPS as full fury... we still have an MS blood frenzy warrior in the raid - admittedly not as well geared as me, but I demolish him on straight DPS